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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "A philosophical question on sadism and boundaries" 1 2 3 A philosophical question on sadism and boundaries (29) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. 8 Nov 11, 11:34 AM Prolixitys_Saphira US, 16 mths Miss_Astere wrote: Do all of you Masters/Mistresses have a sadistic streak and do you think it is at the root of your relations with your slave? Where exactly do you derive your pleasure? Is it during the training stage watching your slaves struggle or is it related more to the final result? Something my owner said to me made me come back to this thread. "I have molded you into the slut I want; now I'm just polishing." The conversation had to do with how far I've come under his tutelage--how he has pushed my limits in some cases to make me what he wants--and not the philosophy of sadomasochism, but it has me thinking that possibly for him it was not just the journey, but also the final destination that gives him pleasure. And while he does so enjoy my pain, I believe his dominance of me is the true root of our dynamic. Owned, loved and protected by Prolixity. 8 Nov 11, 9:22 PM Master_SL CA, 5 yrs Miss_Astere wrote: Master_SL wrote: I have matured to the point where I elect to use my sadism for my enjoyment when I see fit but not always. This caught my eye but I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this, Master_SL. What was happening before you matured to this point? Do you mean you couldn't stop from doing it before on every occasion or that you were doing it on occasions just to please your slave? Edited: to correct very obvious spelling mistakes Hi Miss_Astere, I suppose that broad statement could use some defining and thanks for the inquiry. The question had never been control it was technique. I was making reference to my use of S/M practice in my training repertoire. My experience has shown me most D-types begin with the rudimentary understanding of using physical stimuli to promote behavioural tendencies and even just mimic what has been read, seen or what they feel is “expected”. Now I am not saying there isn't a place for the use of physicality just that there are more progressive techniques that may be utilized. For example (these may seem morbid but I am trying to illustrate as well as I can); There are many ways to infiltrate someone's mind and retrieve information. “Mafia style” cut off fingers till information spills out of subject, promptly dump from car and speed off, hopefully ten digits was adequate… or …“Secret Services style” real aim is to break down the victim's personality and identity using many methods mostly psychological in nature such as sleep and sensory deprivation, stress positions, subjection to noise and stimuli etc… Bottom line is the secret service is far more refined and I would put money on them getting what they want. I realize that I didn't start out where I am today as that has progressed over time. Unfortunately I do encounter many that find a status quo and stay there as their ego hinders acceptance of knowledge and their ability to evolve as a Master. Master_SL 8 Nov 11, 11:33 PM mutable 2 yrs SIR_Conwolf wrote: I have to say that this is part of the reason I enjoy reading and being part of this forum so much. I completely respect the feelings everyone has expressed. I honestly have difficulty relating to many of them, but that's ok with me. I apologize for my grammar and formation, I am on my phone. My feelings on pain are unlike the majority of masters here. I have a feeling that many people would say that I am so far on the other end that I don't qualify as a "true master". I honestly don't care. I like to see my girl protected, safe, and secure in her mind, body and soul. I don't mean that in a religious way, just in the vast description that she feels no fear. She is afraid of hurting my feelings or disappointing me because the respect I have given her. She is to wear a collar 24/7 which took quite some getting used to. The dynamics of this type of relationship has brought us very close and helped remind us what our true responsibilities are. She is to serve me whenever I ask, and I am to protect her with out question. She uses her words, and on occasion (we are working on this) her knees. I cannot imagine hitting her even in play. Just not my thing. I hope this didn't read like a letter to dear Abbey, I just thought I would provide some of my thoughts from the much lighter side. SIR @SIR_Conwolf, this is a thread about sadistic tendancies; the how, why and end results. As such, I view your post as offering a different pov and I see nothing negative about your input. A d-type does not have to be sadistic in order to be a d-type. Yes, it can give an alternate pov which gives both more to talk about and engage in but, in my experience, can occasionally stifle those subtlies that keep a dynamic functioning successfully. I guess it all depends what one needs though. Giving and recieving pain is easy in it's box... it's called 's/m' and some do it, some don't. Maintaining a fully functioning 'alternate' dynamic is not easy however - with or without pain, so 'without' does not make a dymanic 'less than' (imo). Think I've derailed a bit - sorry OP - I also have a bonnet bee atm re. this subject. 'We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are'. Anais Nin 9 Nov 11, 6:26 AM 766-003-205 US(CA), 11 mths Y! SIR_Conwolf wrote: I have to say that this is part of the reason I enjoy reading and being part of this forum so much. I completely respect the feelings everyone has expressed. I honestly have difficulty relating to many of them, but that's ok with me. I apologize for my grammar and formation, I am on my phone. My feelings on pain are unlike the majority of masters here. I have a feeling that many people would say that I am so far on the other end that I don't qualify as a "true master". I honestly don't care. I like to see my girl protected, safe, and secure in her mind, body and soul. I don't mean that in a religious way, just in the vast description that she feels no fear. She is afraid of hurting my feelings or disappointing me because the respect I have given her. She is to wear a collar 24/7 which took quite some getting used to. The dynamics of this type of relationship has brought us very close and helped remind us what our true responsibilities are. She is to serve me whenever I ask, and I am to protect her with out question. She uses her words, and on occasion (we are working on this) her knees. I cannot imagine hitting her even in play. Just not my thing. I hope this didn't read like a letter to dear Abbey, I just thought I would provide some of my thoughts from the much lighter side. SIR Sir Conwolf- i commend you on standing for your principles. As a masochist i am loving it when i get flogged, whipped, waxed and other options- but they don't inspire fear in me, i get excitement, HE gets the outcome. i believe though, that it is much better to avoid fear as leverage in a dynamic and it is ultimately a slow death to a dynamic. This is not to say a non-masochist can't get a subspace rush and not fear the experience. i am lucky and get both. Since masochism isn't a part of your slave's world and there are many ways of getting that rush-and you aren't a sadist, why cause pain when neither get anything? Total waste and dynamic crusher it would be. If someone thinks you are less of a Master for not using pain,(even though neither of you want it) then my opinion would be they don't understand Mastery. Edited 9 Nov 11, 6:28 AM by 766-003-205 9 Nov 11, 4:08 PM Miss_Astere US, 2 yrs Master_SL wrote: Miss_Astere wrote: Master_SL wrote: I have matured to the point where I elect to use my sadism for my enjoyment when I see fit but not always. This caught my eye but I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this, Master_SL. What was happening before you matured to this point? Do you mean you couldn't stop from doing it before on every occasion or that you were doing it on occasions just to please your slave? Edited: to correct very obvious spelling mistakes Hi Miss_Astere, I suppose that broad statement could use some defining and thanks for the inquiry. The question had never been control it was technique. I was making reference to my use of S/M practice in my training repertoire. My experience has shown me most D-types begin with the rudimentary understanding of using physical stimuli to promote behavioural tendencies and even just mimic what has been read, seen or what they feel is “expected”. Now I am not saying there isn't a place for the use of physicality just that there are more progressive techniques that may be utilized. For example (these may seem morbid but I am trying to illustrate as well as I can); There are many ways to infiltrate someone's mind and retrieve information. “Mafia style” cut off fingers till information spills out of subject, promptly dump from car and speed off, hopefully ten digits was adequate… or …“Secret Services style” real aim is to break down the victim's personality and identity using many methods mostly psychological in nature such as sleep and sensory deprivation, stress positions, subjection to noise and stimuli etc… Bottom line is the secret service is far more refined and I would put money on them getting what they want. I realize that I didn't start out where I am today as that has progressed over time. Unfortunately I do encounter many that find a status quo and stay there as their ego hinders acceptance of knowledge and their ability to evolve as a Master. Yes, I see now. I was going in a totally different direction. Kind of almost made you an uncontrollable sadistic addict for a while, didn't I? 9 Nov 11, 4:14 PM Miss_Astere US, 2 yrs Regarding sadistic expression and true Mastery, I wanted to clarify that I feel more in common with Sir_Conwolf. For years I hadn't even thought about physical pain with that first man although there had been moments where I have taken pleasure in his real struggle to please me. He is a very good-natured man, communication has always been an extremely effective tool for us and I have absolutely no inner natural desire to hurt him. With other people as well pain is definitely not a default tool for me. Then there came a point when pain was readily available to explore and use and I discovered that it was only pleasurable when used in a context. So I too feel like an outsider for the group of "true Masters". Even more so, after reading Master_SL's clarification above on using sadism in his relationships (for which I thank you Master_SL). I must say from the above post I got a slightly different perspective on what M/s may be all about. Nonetheless, I don't think we should get too hung up on labels. I personally am not too concerned with finding my exact status in society 9 Nov 11, 4:49 PM SIR_Conwolf US(MA), 14 mths I have no intention of derailiing this excellent thread. I would just like to commend the OP for starting this. I have found it to be a very educational, intellectual, and constructive conversation. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and look forward to reading more. <SIR 9 Nov 11, 9:27 PM Master_SL CA, 5 yrs Miss_Astere wrote: Regarding sadistic expression and true Mastery, I wanted to clarify that I feel more in common with Sir_Conwolf. For years I hadn't even thought about physical pain with that first man although there had been moments where I have taken pleasure in his real struggle to please me. He is a very good-natured man, communication has always been an extremely effective tool for us and I have absolutely no inner natural desire to hurt him. With other people as well pain is definitely not a default tool for me. Then there came a point when pain was readily available to explore and use and I discovered that it was only pleasurable when used in a context. So I too feel like an outsider for the group of "true Masters". Even more so, after reading Master_SL's clarification above on using sadism in his relationships (for which I thank you Master_SL). I must say from the above post I got a slightly different perspective on what M/s may be all about. Nonetheless, I don't think we should get too hung up on labels. I personally am not too concerned with finding my exact status in society Hi Miss_Astere, I should be clear that although S&M may be part of my dynamic if removed entirely out of the picture would have little to no impact on our relationship. Bottom line is she is my slave and the ownership is the foundation not the activities or participation of events. So I would ask that you revoke your “true Masters” reference and your feeling that you do not belong as no one can take ownership of that label and who the hell cares if they do Master_SL 10 Nov 11, 4:00 PM Miss_Astere US, 2 yrs Excellent - officially decided by popular vote. Reference revoked. Thank you, Sir_Conwolf. Derailing is not an issue with me. Who stays on topic these days, anyways