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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "Choice, Chance, or Chemistry" 1 2 3 4 Choice, Chance, or Chemistry (33) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. Tue 1 Nov 11, 3:49 AM slave_emma US(OK), 6 yrs Y! My Master and I were mildly debating today on whether or not a person can control who they fall in love with. Love has been blamed for the failure of D/s or M/s relationships, the growth of a D/s or M/s relationship, and infidelity within the relationship. My Master believes that pheromones play a role in who we fall in love with because our body releases them and the other person releases pheromones which causes an attraction. A person does not have control over pheromones. The pheromones cause the social interaction and the feeling of attraction which is what leads to love. I disagree with this because if someone releases pheromones the person still has to make themselves emotionally available for the relationship to grow into love. I think when a person responds to pheromones it is more lust than love. I have a habit of completely ignoring someone when I get the feeling of being attracted to them. I even did that when I was single, so since I never responded to a pheromone I do not have a point of reference for it leading to love. It takes a fair amount of time and effort for me to fall in love with someone. I was the kid that never fell in love with my boyfriends in school and I didn't immediately fall in love with my Master when I met him. It took time for me. My Master fell in love with me rather easily and quicker than it did for me. Do you think who you fall in love with is something that can be controlled or do you think falling in love is not controllable? Do you think your ability to either control or not control who you fall in love with have playing a role in choosing a partner for an M/s or D/s dynamic? Best wishes, slave emma Master Howard's little girl 1 Nov 11, 4:15 AM lil_one_anjuli 20 mths slave_emma wrote: Choice, Chance, or Chemistry My Master and I were mildly debating today on whether or not a person can control who they fall in love with. Love has been blamed for the failure of D/s or M/s relationships, the growth of a D/s or M/s relationship, and infidelity within the relationship. My Master believes that pheromones play a role in who we fall in love with because our body releases them and the other person releases pheromones which causes an attraction. A person does not have control over pheromones. The pheromones cause the social interaction and the feeling of attraction which is what leads to love. I disagree with this because if someone releases pheromones the person still has to make themselves emotionally available for the relationship to grow into love. I think when a person responds to pheromones it is more lust than love. I have a habit of completely ignoring someone when I get the feeling of being attracted to them. I even did that when I was single, so since I never responded to a pheromone I do not have a point of reference for it leading to love. It takes a fair amount of time and effort for me to fall in love with someone. I was the kid that never fell in love with my boyfriends in school and I didn't immediately fall in love with my Master when I met him. It took time for me. My Master fell in love with me rather easily and quicker than it did for me. Do you think who you fall in love with is something that can be controlled or do you think falling in love is not controllable? Do you think your ability to either control or not control who you fall in love with have playing a role in choosing a partner for an M/s or D/s dynamic? Best wishes, slave emma I am the same way. It is very interesting....what keeps me going with someone is bcs that person is my best friend and my rock and my everything. I was never physically attracted to anyone in my life....maybe i cannot feel pheromones I even tell to everyone Bradd Pitt is ugly and Tom Cruise is horrible. In all my relationships they all started for a deep friendship, with exception of my last bf. It takes a year to decide....He is the one....and i envy others that say it takes nanoseconds. I think more than the question that love is controllable or not....is what is the conception of love each person has. And what is lust? And what is passion? I have never lusted for someone and passion strangely i felt passion * platonic kind* towards many girls....but they were not linked to sexual kind. So not sure....yet. As for my Master He is with me...He says that His love only happens when He finds a certain type of girl...which is submissive. If He doesnt know He doesnt falls. Even when He knows the girl is submissive it takes a while. It needs common interests, a certain dose of humor. I am completely the opposite of His ideal girl....He likes thin with small breasts girls....but despite all this....He is in love with me. 1 Nov 11, 5:25 AM Prolixitys_Saphira US, 16 mths slave_emma wrote: (snip) My Master believes that pheromones play a role in who we fall in love with because our body releases them and the other person releases pheromones which causes an attraction. A person does not have control over pheromones. The pheromones cause the social interaction and the feeling of attraction which is what leads to love. I disagree with this because if someone releases pheromones the person still has to make themselves emotionally available for the relationship to grow into love. I think when a person responds to pheromones it is more lust than love. I have a habit of completely ignoring someone when I get the feeling of being attracted to them. I even did that when I was single, so since I never responded to a pheromone I do not have a point of reference for it leading to love. (snip) Do you think who you fall in love with is something that can be controlled or do you think falling in love is not controllable? Do you think your ability to either control or not control who you fall in love with have playing a role in choosing a partner for an M/s or D/s dynamic? I have to agree with you that love is a chemical attraction that needs some nurturing before it becomes more that biology making me think someone has great pheromones. I don't think it starts out strong or that I am immediately going to fall in love with them simply because some center in my brain finds their pheromones pleasing. I think pheromones can lead to someone wanting to initiate social interaction with another, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. At lot of factors come into play. A girl can be really, really attracted to a guy, but nothing comes of it because she's too shy to go over and speak to him. Or maybe a guy finds girl physically attractive, but she's acting like a stereotypical dumb blonde and that ends up being a turn off. Or maybe we can ignore those pheromones because we already have a significant other. But once we act on those pheromones, we can turn that attraction into love. We can start a relationship and bond on the emotional level so it becomes more than just acting on biology's lust. But it's not going to happen just because of body chemistry. That can be controlled and while we can't pick whose pheromones we react to, we can choose whom amongst that group of people we decide to take a chance on and fall in love with. But it's like that bowl of leftover Halloween candy -- you can love chocolate and want to eat all the bite-sized Snickers in there, but that doesn't mean you can't control yourself and eat only one. As for how that relates to a D/s relationship, I think it's made it possible for me. I don't connect well socially with people. Without that emotional bond, I doubt I could be where I am today. I'm not a natural born submissive, but he's slowly taught me and taken me to levels I would not have gone earlier in the relationship. I could have just walked away very easily from the whole thing during the bad times if that emotional bond wasn't there. Owned, loved and protected by Prolixity. 1 Nov 11, 10:26 AM slave_emma US(OK), 6 yrs Y! Prolixitys_Saphira wrote: As for how that relates to a D/s relationship, I think it's made it possible for me. I don't connect well socially with people. Without that emotional bond, I doubt I could be where I am today. I'm not a natural born submissive, but he's slowly taught me and taken me to levels I would not have gone earlier in the relationship. I could have just walked away very easily from the whole thing during the bad times if that emotional bond wasn't there. I never thought about looking at pheromones as an agent by which we create an emotional bond with a chosen partner. I just never looked at that way but it makes sense. I love my Master differently then say someone in my family. It is a different type of love, so it could be reasoned that pheromones played a role in that. Best wishes, slave emma Master Howard's little girl 1 Nov 11, 11:05 AM mr_dave UK, 3 yrs Y! Its a nice theory, but there is absolutely no evidence that humans give off or react to pheromones. Dave 1 Nov 11, 11:25 AM slave_emma US(OK), 6 yrs Y! mr_dave wrote: Its a nice theory, but there is absolutely no evidence that humans give off or react to pheromones. Dave There is debate about the affect of pheromones on the brain, however, there is some research showing that there is such a thing as human pheromones. http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct02/pheromones.aspx Best wishes, slave emma Master Howard's little girl 1 Nov 11, 11:44 AM mr_dave UK, 3 yrs Y! That report was from 2002 making it a little old. But the problem with pheromone research is the huge number of companies making money out of pheromone based products, which tends to skew the results somewhat. Most independent scientific studies have concluded that we do not produce, give off or respond to pheromones and the more recent studies all confirm this. Dave. 1 Nov 11, 11:49 AM Sir_H_302 UK, 18 mths Oh I think cadance might have a bit to say on this thread when she has time to put a response together - but dont be surprised if its a combination of all 3!!!! The question might then be - which came first, the chemistry, the choice or the chance!!!!?? My precious slave - cadance....dancing to the rhythm of My life! 1 Nov 11, 2:19 PM 000-772-096 US, 7 yrs slave_emma wrote: Choice, Chance, or Chemistry Do you think who you fall in love with is something that can be controlled or do you think falling in love is not controllable? Do you think your ability to either control or not control who you fall in love with have playing a role in choosing a partner for an M/s or D/s dynamic? Best wishes, slave emma I think that falling in love is no more than a chemical reaction. The feelings of falling in love can also be obtained from eating chocolate, listening to music, a dose of heroin or high intensity activities like sky diving. Clandestine affairs also help the individual maintain the same feeling of "high" that they have with every new partner. When one is attracted to another the brain releases phenylethylamine (PEA) making us want to continue to feel good thus prolonging the behaviour creating the feeling. PEA releases the neurochemical dopamine and norepinephrine and they really go to work when we think sweet thoughts of that person making one want to touch and snuggle. This desire opens the door to serotonin which creates feelings of relaxation allowing one to snuggle and touch more which leads to the release of oxytocin bonding us to the other person. More touch leads to more oxytocin with peak levels at the time of orgasm. Naked sex with close body contact creates an ideal environment for the release of oxytocin. Vasopressin ties our loving thoughts to memories keeping us attached to that person. What is commonly referred to as the end of the "honeymoon" period of a relationship is the body having adjusted to the various reactions so that it no longer creates that energetic "high" of the relationship. At that point, the brain produces endorphins, brain opiates more like morphine. They calm the mind, kill pain, and reduce anxiety. Divorce levels peak around 4 years, after the honeymoon phase is long gone and the brain is no longer hyper stimulated and is in the long term endorphin releasing stage. I believe the feeling of "falling in love" can be controlled like any other feeling. Or not controlled at all if that is the choice the individual makes. Because of the chemical reactions and the "high" produced by the chemistry many people like the way it feels too much to try to control it. Some people prefer the upper feeling of the release of the falling in love chemicals and some prefer the long term relaxed effects of the later love experience. In my opinion, falling in love is just getting "high." It's easy, it's simple, and assuming that one is the kind of person who allows themselves to enjoy the feelings of a created high, it can happen with lots of other people. The potential for it to happen is always there, the choice made by the individual controls the level of probability. Loving someone is the choice to continue to love one person after the high has worn off. Love ends when it becomes merely an expected reaction to a repeated situation. I think it is pointless to remain with another person when that happens. I do not see purpose in controlling the feeling of falling in love as it applies to my life. Love was not a primary factor in Master's acquisition of me. I fell in love immediately and I have not left the "honeymoon" phase of that feeling with Master yet and it's been 12 years. I believe that the type of M/s (as I define it) creates an environment that enables those reactions and provides opportunities for the release of those chemicals to be constant. As I've mentioned in previous posts, I am helplessly in love with Master. I do not believe he feels the same about me nor do I think it is important to our dynamic. He finds my silly, doe eyed behaviour amusing and enjoys watching the physical and emotional reactions to the vulnerability and dependence on him created by the cascade effect of falling in love constantly. (Personal thoughts and opinions as applies to my life. Any resemblance to other real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.) I use Master & slave (M/f) because he is Master & I am slave. I'm wordy & one of "those" people. All disclaimers apply-my thoughts, opinions, experiences & words. I believe in Master. Be who you are, say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter & those who matter don't mind-Dr. Seuss 1 Nov 11, 7:12 PM 290-491-264 US(SC), 7 mths 000-772-096 wrote: slave_emma wrote: Choice, Chance, or Chemistry Do you think who you fall in love with is something that can be controlled or do you think falling in love is not controllable? Do you think your ability to either control or not control who you fall in love with have playing a role in choosing a partner for an M/s or D/s dynamic? Best wishes, slave emma I think that falling in love is no more than a chemical reaction. The feelings of falling in love can also be obtained from eating chocolate, listening to music, a dose of heroin or high intensity activities like sky diving. Clandestine affairs also help the individual maintain the same feeling of "high" that they have with every new partner. When one is attracted to another the brain releases phenylethylamine (PEA) making us want to continue to feel good thus prolonging the behaviour creating the feeling. PEA releases the neurochemical dopamine and norepinephrine and they really go to work when we think sweet thoughts of that person making one want to touch and snuggle. This desire opens the door to serotonin which creates feelings of relaxation allowing one to snuggle and touch more which leads to the release of oxytocin bonding us to the other person. More touch leads to more oxytocin with peak levels at the time of orgasm. Naked sex with close body contact creates an ideal environment for the release of oxytocin. Vasopressin ties our loving thoughts to memories keeping us attached to that person. What is commonly referred to as the end of the "honeymoon" period of a relationship is the body having adjusted to the various reactions so that it no longer creates that energetic "high" of the relationship. At that point, the brain produces endorphins, brain opiates more like morphine. They calm the mind, kill pain, and reduce anxiety. Divorce levels peak around 4 years, after the honeymoon phase is long gone and the brain is no longer hyper stimulated and is in the long term endorphin releasing stage. I believe the feeling of "falling in love" can be controlled like any other feeling. Or not controlled at all if that is the choice the individual makes. Because of the chemical reactions and the "high" produced by the chemistry many people like the way it feels too much to try to control it. Some people prefer the upper feeling of the release of the falling in love chemicals and some prefer the long term relaxed effects of the later love experience. In my opinion, falling in love is just getting "high." It's easy, it's simple, and assuming that one is the kind of person who allows themselves to enjoy the feelings of a created high, it can happen with lots of other people. The potential for it to happen is always there, the choice made by the individual controls the level of probability. Loving someone is the choice to continue to love one person after the high has worn off. Love ends when it becomes merely an expected reaction to a repeated situation. I think it is pointless to remain with another person when that happens. I do not see purpose in controlling the feeling of falling in love as it applies to my life. Love was not a primary factor in Master's acquisition of me. I fell in love immediately and I have not left the "honeymoon" phase of that feeling with Master yet and it's been 12 years. I believe that the type of M/s (as I define it) creates an environment that enables those reactions and provides opportunities for the release of those chemicals to be constant. As I've mentioned in previous posts, I am helplessly in love with Master. I do not believe he feels the same about me nor do I think it is important to our dynamic. He finds my silly, doe eyed behaviour amusing and enjoys watching the physical and emotional reactions to the vulnerability and dependence on him created by the cascade effect of falling in love constantly. (Personal thoughts and opinions as applies to my life. Any resemblance to other real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.) I just wish I could *like* posts like Facebook. I have nothing to add here other than the fact that I agree with all of this and learned a little in the process. Good stuff. 1 Nov 11, 8:11 PM slave_emma US(OK), 6 yrs Y! mr_dave wrote: That report was from 2002 making it a little old. But the problem with pheromone research is the huge number of companies making money out of pheromone based products, which tends to skew the results somewhat. Most independent scientific studies have concluded that we do not produce, give off or respond to pheromones and the more recent studies all confirm this. Dave. Thank you for your opinion, but there are more recent studies on both sides of the issue. As with any subject, there are going to be those that agree and those that disagree. Best wishes, slave emma Master Howard's little girl Next page