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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "Loveless" 1 2 3 4 5 Loveless (43) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. 27 Mar 11, 6:15 PM GerardVanDam NL, 4 yrs Dagobert wrote: This harkens back to a previous discussion where I threw out that the problem is that there are many types of love but only one word that we use in English for it. There is romantic love (the type that Hollywood attempts to represent Years ago I had a long discussion about love. The discussion was in Dutch. We found we needed a far better terminology and definitions to avoid misunderstandings. I guess I don't really understand what you mean by "romantic love". 30 years ago my girls became slaves. I believed they became my slaves because of my love (not only the physical part). English is not my first language. For many here it is difficult to express their feelings. If I make mistakes, please tell me. 27 Mar 11, 6:55 PM lorin666 AU, 14 mths wouldnt a loveless M/s relationship be just both people being selfish, i dont see how it could work long term. 27 Mar 11, 6:56 PM mutable 2 yrs Valyrian101 wrote: I think I have to agree with @Dagobert on this one in regards of being too many definitions for a single word/phrase. Hopefully I've helped mutable, not confused. Valyrian101 (snipped by me) Hey. I'm not confused Valyrian. I live in a perpetual state of perplexity, so I'm used to it by now. It's when people start talking common sense that I'm at a loss! I do agree with you and Dagobert and others that there are too many definitions of 'love'. So how about this... (sorry pet, I am disrailing this slightly)... when is love not quite love? What is the minimum emotional requirement for one (you) to submit wholly? Friendship? Understanding? Respect? Trust? Lust etc.? A combination, of what? Personally, I view the above examples just as stated and not meaning love - but since I don't don't know what love means I maybe wrong. 'We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are'. Anais Nin 27 Mar 11, 7:00 PM Dagobert US(WA), 21 mths slacker wrote: Dagobert wrote: I have told my slave that there are two ways for her to end the our relationship: 1) ask to be released -- in which case I would ponder the request but not necessarily grant it, or, 2) run away and hide somewhere I cannot find her. Wow sounds like this may turn out to be a case of 'run cunt run' then. Catchy title for a film Christ... I never thought I would say this, but where in the hell is @property_of_MacCain when we really need her? Listen: you may not like what I say, or maybe cannot fathom how we live, but let me tell you one thing very explicitly: there is no "abusive" behavior, no threatening of any kind, and certainly nothing that has not been consented to (either directly or by proxy) occurring in this O/p relationship. She is NOT just free to go at a whim without facing large consequences... and those are not physical or abusive in any way, shape or form. It would be a major mental ordeal for her because she has internally enslaved HERSELF to me. Does that make sense to you? Her consequences would purely have to do with HER. On the other hand, I do NOT allow her to throw tantrums or to leave for some of the smaller reasons that people leave a normal vanilla relationship. Those are things like her being annoyed with something I do, etc etc etc. When those things are brought up we can discuss them but if she throws a tantrum she will be dealt with. Our relationship is VERY heavily balanced in my favor... and I do not take that lightly nor do I abuse it. IF we were ever to end things then I can say with much confidence that it would be I who would have the final say. That is just the way it is and we have proven it a couple of times already. Think something along the lines of "Taming of the Shrew". I am the proud owner of dagoberts_cunt. She lives to serve me in all ways until the end of her days. 28 Mar 11, 3:27 AM pet_ka_MJ CA, 2 yrs Dagobert wrote: slacker wrote: Dagobert wrote: I have told my slave that there are two ways for her to end the our relationship: 1) ask to be released -- in which case I would ponder the request but not necessarily grant it, or, 2) run away and hide somewhere I cannot find her. Wow sounds like this may turn out to be a case of 'run cunt run' then. Catchy title for a film Christ... I never thought I would say this, but where in the hell is @property_of_MacCain when we really need her? Listen: you may not like what I say, or maybe cannot fathom how we live, but let me tell you one thing very explicitly: there is no "abusive" behavior, no threatening of any kind, and certainly nothing that has not been consented to (either directly or by proxy) occurring in this O/p relationship. She is NOT just free to go at a whim without facing large consequences... and those are not physical or abusive in any way, shape or form. It would be a major mental ordeal for her because she has internally enslaved HERSELF to me. Does that make sense to you? Her consequences would purely have to do with HER. On the other hand, I do NOT allow her to throw tantrums or to leave for some of the smaller reasons that people leave a normal vanilla relationship. Those are things like her being annoyed with something I do, etc etc etc. When those things are brought up we can discuss them but if she throws a tantrum she will be dealt with. Our relationship is VERY heavily balanced in my favor... and I do not take that lightly nor do I abuse it. IF we were ever to end things then I can say with much confidence that it would be I who would have the final say. That is just the way it is and we have proven it a couple of times already. Think something along the lines of "Taming of the Shrew". My Master has the final say in when or how our relationship ends. It is a fail safe to prevent topping from the bottom and manipulating him to get what I want - the "do it my way or I withdraw my consent." Yet, at the same time it is recognized that I have certain inalienable rights under the law and so he has the often difficult task of balancing these with my choice to not exercise them (if that makes sense). I have not had any thoughts of terminating the relationship ever, but there have been some heated discussions as we sorted out issues... very much like "Taming the Shrew." My Master is very good at picking his battles and slowly chipping away at my picky perfectionist, control freakishness ways. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to eat crow and say... yup you were right about that too. Still gotta try and do it my own way first somedays though... and fall on my ass... and then my Master is gentlemanly enough to not gloat too harshly. "With courage you will dare to take risks, have the strength to be compassionate, and the wisdom to be humble. Courage is the foundation of integrity." ~ Keshavan Nair Edited 28 Mar 11, 3:28 AM by pet_ka_MJ 28 Mar 11, 3:18 PM Dagobert US(WA), 21 mths pet_ka_MJ wrote: My Master has the final say in when or how our relationship ends. It is a fail safe to prevent topping from the bottom and manipulating him to get what I want - the "do it my way or I withdraw my consent." Yet, at the same time it is recognized that I have certain inalienable rights under the law and so he has the often difficult task of balancing these with my choice to not exercise them (if that makes sense). I have not had any thoughts of terminating the relationship ever, but there have been some heated discussions as we sorted out issues... very much like "Taming the Shrew." My Master is very good at picking his battles and slowly chipping away at my picky perfectionist, control freakishness ways. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to eat crow and say... yup you were right about that too. Still gotta try and do it my own way first somedays though... and fall on my ass... and then my Master is gentlemanly enough to not gloat too harshly. That is EXACTLY what I was talking about! Thanks for putting it into words for me, @pet_ka_MJ. What people on TSR (or anywhere for that matter) do not see are the behind the scenes dealings between master and slave. In my case at least it is not like she is a mindless tramp just awaiting an order from me. She is quite feisty and most definitely has a (very strong) mind of her own. We spend much of our time without formal protocol because that is our (mine at least) comfort zone. However, all it takes is a look from me and she knows exactly where her place is. It works beautifully, even if there are many who do not understand it. I am the proud owner of dagoberts_cunt. She lives to serve me in all ways until the end of her days. 28 Mar 11, 3:28 PM Lord_Uther UK, 6 yrs Dagobert wrote: slacker wrote: Dagobert wrote: I have told my slave that there are two ways for her to end the our relationship: 1) ask to be released -- in which case I would ponder the request but not necessarily grant it, or, 2) run away and hide somewhere I cannot find her. Wow sounds like this may turn out to be a case of 'run cunt run' then. Catchy title for a film Christ... I never thought I would say this, but where in the hell is @property_of_MacCain when we really need her? I believe one of the reasons we lost PofM is because of comments like this. People who fail to understand what Internal Enslavement means, it's consequences & ramifications, and constantly having to defend her chosen lifestyle from inane & judgemental comments. My name is Lord Uther, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair! 28 Mar 11, 3:30 PM Dagobert US(WA), 21 mths There are two songs that come to mind that describe, to me at least, the sort of love that I see in an M/s or O/p relationship: Kate Bush -- "Wuthering Heights" and Florence and The Machine -- "Kiss With a Fist". One can argue that both of them describe "love" but certainly not a standard definition of it. There is also, for the more electronically minded, She Wants Revenge -- "Sister". Sister is fascinating to me because it describes almost to a 'T' the beginnings of my relationship with my slave. It is almost like She Wants Revenge were in the house over the first few dates. Side note: "Wuthering Heights" is such a beautiful song and it amuses me to no end that a young, warbly-voiced Kate Bush stood in front of an audience on BBC and sang a song about being a rejected slave under the pretense of singing about the book. http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/Wuthering... Brings tears to my eyes every time I hear it. I am the proud owner of dagoberts_cunt. She lives to serve me in all ways until the end of her days. 28 Mar 11, 4:05 PM slacker 14 mths Dagobert wrote: slacker wrote: Dagobert wrote: I have told my slave that there are two ways for her to end the our relationship: 1) ask to be released -- in which case I would ponder the request but not necessarily grant it, or, 2) run away and hide somewhere I cannot find her. Wow sounds like this may turn out to be a case of 'run cunt run' then. Catchy title for a film Christ... I never thought I would say this, but where in the hell is @property_of_MacCain when we really need her? Listen: you may not like what I say, or maybe cannot fathom how we live, but let me tell you one thing very explicitly: there is no "abusive" behavior, no threatening of any kind, and certainly nothing that has not been consented to (either directly or by proxy) occurring in this O/p relationship. She is NOT just free to go at a whim without facing large consequences... and those are not physical or abusive in any way, shape or form. It would be a major mental ordeal for her because she has internally enslaved HERSELF to me. Does that make sense to you? Her consequences would purely have to do with HER. On the other hand, I do NOT allow her to throw tantrums or to leave for some of the smaller reasons that people leave a normal vanilla relationship. Those are things like her being annoyed with something I do, etc etc etc. When those things are brought up we can discuss them but if she throws a tantrum she will be dealt with. Our relationship is VERY heavily balanced in my favor... and I do not take that lightly nor do I abuse it. IF we were ever to end things then I can say with much confidence that it would be I who would have the final say. That is just the way it is and we have proven it a couple of times already. Think something along the lines of "Taming of the Shrew". I aplogise if my comment offended you it was meant to be taken more as a joke then a criticism of you and your slave. 28 Mar 11, 5:33 PM Dagobert US(WA), 21 mths slacker wrote: I aplogise if my comment offended you it was meant to be taken more as a joke then a criticism of you and your slave. It didn't offend so much as bring back to mind a whole slew of conversations around this topic from the past. While this account is only 7 months old I have been here for 6 or 7 years in a mostly non-participatory manner and have watched what happens when someone has the balls (or ovaries as the case may be sometimes) to honestly describe their relationship. I spent a lot of time pondering what it meant to own another human -- what does "abuse" mean within the context of ownership, where is the line between abusive behavior and "acceptable" behavior, what am I, as an owner, allowed to do to my property, etc etc etc. What I came up with is as follows: "whatever I want within the confines of the law and the explicit and implicit permissions she has granted me". Period. What may make some scream abuse may actually be an almost beautiful aspect to others. My property, for example, thrives on being in a very confined role... without that confinement she is a lost little girl. I didn't just take that for granted; we have discussed it at length. Taking away her right to just get up and leave is a VERY integral part of that because without it she would immediately fall into old patterns that SHE knows are unhealthy. I spend a lot of time helping her mold herself into a better human and sometimes the things that I have to do in order to reach that goal involve things she does not like (or things that make that little voice in her head scream "NO!"). It's a process of breaking down (not destroying!) the ego and rebuilding it into something that is healthy. She is by far a better person than she was when we met and that is not me tooting my own horn -- SHE has said that. I tend to believe her. To close out what could very well become a lengthy essay, there are certain trigger points regarding O/p on TSR that are usually best left alone. The biggest one is to make any assumptions about another's relationship. There are some on here that are very proud that their masters beat the living shit out of them, and there are others to whom a slap on the rearend borders on abuse. TSR can be a very interesting place -- I know that I have learned TONS on here over the years -- but sometimes it gets far too cluttered with people interjecting their own morals into the conversation. That said, your apology is very much accepted but was not necessary. I am the proud owner of dagoberts_cunt. She lives to serve me in all ways until the end of her days. Next page