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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "Unquestioned beliefs" Unquestioned beliefs (9) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. Sat 30 Oct 10, 8:06 PM pet_ka_MJ CA, 2 yrs Over the last few months I have been dealing with an issue that arose for me regarding my definition of our type of slavery and how it relates to the real slavery that exists in the world. It has been a long haul, but I think I am finally through to the other side... thank gawd. In examining by belief system it made me realize that I have some unquestioned beliefs about my life and my place in the universe, and when I related these beliefs to my Master slave dynamic, there were some Master slave beliefs that were in conflict with my view of life in general. This got me to wondering if others had unquestioned beliefs about their Master slave dynamics. If so, what are they. And, what has caused - or could cause you - to question them. Edited to correct grammar and typos. "With courage you will dare to take risks, have the strength to be compassionate, and the wisdom to be humble. Courage is the foundation of integrity." ~ Keshavan Nair Edited Sat 30 Oct 10, 11:21 PM by pet_ka_MJ 31 Oct 10, 4:59 AM Master4536 US(IL), 22 mths If you have any doubts or questions regarding being a slave, then don't. While there are many weekend BdSm parties in your area, someone with the soul of a true slave is far beyond the superficial eroticisms of the weekend game players. A real slave knows that spending too much time in being too picky about a Master is actually a degree of control (very non-slave like). As his property, you need to let your soul be the slave it has always wanted to be. Let ALL of your concerns be freed, and now place all of your effort into serving the Master. Stop and think deeply about what is most important. When you kneel in front of him, are you untrusting and worry about his next command, or do you fully trust your new Master because anything less than pure trust and faith in your Master is a failure as a slave. 31 Oct 10, 5:11 AM MasterMetal US(GA), 19 mths I've never had any problems or questions about my lifestyle. I feel I need my slave or submissive just as much as they need me. It goes far beyond just a sexual act, or bedroom fun. It's something that makes me happy. A shared connection between both Dom sub, Master and slave. It should be built on trust and somewhat equal respect. All in all I don't really see it being different from a regular relationship. It just fits the specific needs of two people. 31 Oct 10, 5:51 AM pet_ka_MJ CA, 2 yrs Just for clarification... I never questioned my relationship with my Master or my place at his feet. What I questioned were the terms we used to describe our lifestyle given the difference between our form of consensual slavery and real non-consensual slavery. I also know that there are a variety of beliefs out there about our lifestyle that we debate quite heatedly here on TSR. What I am curious about is what are some of those beliefs, and what could, or would not make you change those beliefs. For example, for centuries scholars believed the world was flat as a pancake till some erstwhile sailor decided to do something different and we now know differently. I do not imagine people's beliefs about this lifestyle are so static that they have remained the same overtime. So how have people's beliefs changed, and what triggered the change. Just on a side note, as a result of my little foray into examining some of my assumptions about this lifestyle, I would say that my bond with my Master is much deeper than it has ever been. It was once written that an unexamined life is not worth living... if we cannot examine our beliefs or assumptions about this lifestyle or debate them... why do forums such as this even exist. "With courage you will dare to take risks, have the strength to be compassionate, and the wisdom to be humble. Courage is the foundation of integrity." ~ Keshavan Nair Edited 31 Oct 10, 5:52 AM by pet_ka_MJ 31 Oct 10, 5:24 PM mia UK, 11 yrs Master4536 wrote: If you have any doubts or questions regarding being a slave, then don't. While there are many weekend BdSm parties in your area, someone with the soul of a true slave is far beyond the superficial eroticisms of the weekend game players. A real slave knows that spending too much time in being too picky about a Master is actually a degree of control (very non-slave like). As his property, you need to let your soul be the slave it has always wanted to be. Let ALL of your concerns be freed, and now place all of your effort into serving the Master. Stop and think deeply about what is most important. When you kneel in front of him, are you untrusting and worry about his next command, or do you fully trust your new Master because anything less than pure trust and faith in your Master is a failure as a slave. I would disagree with everything said in this post. Before finding someone, then being 'picky' is important. It's important so that whilst you still have some control over your life, or whilst you have a greater degree of control, then it's important you make informed decisions and find someone who will be compatible. Whilst in an M/s relationship, then it can be a great place to fully trust someone and for them to have full control is amazing. It is difficult though, as despite your status as a slave, you still remain a human being and a human being having grown up in the 20th and 21st century. These things will mean that although you prioritise your Master (which is how it should be, imo) there will still be other things that are important to you and things that might clash with your servitude. It's up to you and your Master to continually work at making him the most important to you, but you shouldn't feel bad in having questions and doubts about things. Talk to your Master, i'm sure he'd want to know your worries and help you to get rid of them. All the best. m, x 31 Oct 10, 11:51 PM seresse US(PA), 23 mths Y! i agree about an unexamined life is a life not worth living - at least for myself. Mostly the beliefs that i have examined about this lifestyle are about what i know about myself, rather than the lifestyle itself. i don't, at this point, see a conflict between the terms used for our lifestyle and the terms used for the non-consensual slavery. There are many words and terms in our language that have very different meanings depending on the context they are used. When i am referred to as a slave, or feel myself to be one, i cannot think of a more appropriate word - it just fits how i feel. i guess i come to this from a background of owning and training horses, who i perceive as sensitive, intelligent sentient beings - and our slaves. There are so many different ways that horses are owned and treated and thought of by their owners, yet one thing remains common to them all - they are in the control of the humans that own them. Some are deeply loved and spoiled rotten members of the family, and some are very cruelly treated and destroyed - just like us. So the debate about whether we are "true" slaves or not seems irrelevant to me. If you have surrendered power to another, then you are a slave, regardless if it was voluntary or coerced. i have had horses willingly surrender to me and delight in pleasing me, and i have seen horses beaten into submission and made miserable. Yet they are both slaves and at the mercy of those who own them. Like us. i have questioned and been challenged to examine many of my attachments and boundaries, limits and limitations, and that has changed my understanding of what i am and who i am and what makes me who i am. Sometimes it is painful and hard, but always in the end there is more freedom and ease of mind. Perhaps the biggest change in belief is the one that says that mentally healthy people must have and maintain good boundaries and not live to serve others. i believed that and tried really hard to abide by that. (i am an obedient slave after all. ). Now i find that belief is not necessarily true and i feel much freer and happier being true to myself, not having to maintain and defend boundaries that actually stand in the way of a deeper and closer intimacy than i knew before. Not sure that is clear, or quite what you were asking... but hope you find it interesting anyway. (And hope you are still enjoying your snowfall - is it still on the ground?) seresse 1 Nov 10, 10:51 PM LunaChick US(TX), 8 yrs pet_ka_MJ wrote: Just for clarification... I never questioned my relationship with my Master or my place at his feet. What I questioned were the terms we used to describe our lifestyle given the difference between our form of consensual slavery and real non-consensual slavery. I also know that there are a variety of beliefs out there about our lifestyle that we debate quite heatedly here on TSR. What I am curious about is what are some of those beliefs, and what could, or would not make you change those beliefs. I do not imagine people's beliefs about this lifestyle are so static that they have remained the same overtime. So how have people's beliefs changed, and what triggered the change. Just on a side note, as a result of my little foray into examining some of my assumptions about this lifestyle, I would say that my bond with my Master is much deeper than it has ever been. It was once written that an unexamined life is not worth living... if we cannot examine our beliefs or assumptions about this lifestyle or debate them... why do forums such as this even exist. Lovely post... For myself, I have changed so much in the 25 years (dear God, how did I get old enough to be able to say that!) I have been aware of my desires and had a point of reference for them. For a period of time, as I was examining childhood trauma. I spent a lot of time reconciling the concepts of abuse vs consent and why would I be experiencing trauma over abuse and not over consensual acts (which were far more 'intense'). This extended to include gender roles in society. For a while I lived exclusively as a Femme top lesbian, and there were many who were part of the butch/femme world who could not accept feminine and dominant together. Others could not accept a woman 'inflicting' power dynamics (physically or emotionally) on another woman. I still continue to examine my motives and though processes behind my desires. But the bottom line for me became; "How do I live authentically and honestly and with passion?" I do that by doing it. And I do it with consent. My consent and the consent of my partners. It sounds like your initial feeling were around the semantics of titles. Would you feel more or less owned if you were called teapot instead of slave? It wouldn't ameliorate the atrocities in the world. Those are issues that as humans we should work to address and bring to light and that can be done even while we call ourselves by similar words. Luna 3 Nov 10, 5:47 PM 898-443-818 US, 5 yrs What great answers, and i hope you yourself have come to peace on the topic _pet_. The only 2 things i came up with are these: it is always a bit of a struggle when i consider myself "normal" (er, normal for me). i have family members going through very hard things and making poor choices. Yet i know most people would say the same of me if they were ever in the details of my life. Although, how can a "bad" choice or a "bad" lifestyle lead to such happiness? i still revisit this topic in my head now and again. Additionally, i sometimes struggle with the lack of what i shall call "deep kink." my Master has His moments, but 90% of the time kink (as in sex) is not what He is looking for. i enjoy all kink, all sex, anything and everything, and also, the "assumption" that this lifestyle will lead to deep kink-i assumed it would get nastier and nastier and at some point it didn't. i had to either adopt what my Master felt was an adequate level of kinky play and leave the rest to fantasy, or make a life change which i am not 1. interested in making or 2. in the position to change, as Owned property. So the only other possibility is a realignment of my beliefs. While this may seem a shallow topic compared to your struggle, it was a topic near and dear to my heart nonetheless. May i point out i strictly mean sex here. Our level of control is also a "kink" to me in that i get off on it and thoroughly enjoy it and crave and need it. We are all good there. But my Master had a few different ideas. It took awhile to reconcile all that in my head but i did and now i am happier in my own skin. It was never my decision to make, but you know, we put "labels" and expectations on everything, even our relationships. Again, i realize this is not the world-economic impact topic you were referring to, but this is what i came out of your question thinking about. 898-443-818 i am a slave-i have no rights, no safewords, i do not say "no" to my Master. i do not have "limits". i have entered into consensual slavery, so that may help explain the views in my post. Please visit my vegan & weightloss blog: www.foodmasochist.blogspot.com 3 Nov 10, 6:32 PM pet_ka_MJ CA, 2 yrs 898-443-818 wrote: What great answers, and i hope you yourself have come to peace on the topic _pet_. The only 2 things i came up with are these: it is always a bit of a struggle when i consider myself "normal" (er, normal for me). i have family members going through very hard things and making poor choices. Yet i know most people would say the same of me if they were ever in the details of my life. Although, how can a "bad" choice or a "bad" lifestyle lead to such happiness? i still revisit this topic in my head now and again. Additionally, i sometimes struggle with the lack of what i shall call "deep kink." my Master has His moments, but 90% of the time kink (as in sex) is not what He is looking for. i enjoy all kink, all sex, anything and everything, and also, the "assumption" that this lifestyle will lead to deep kink-i assumed it would get nastier and nastier and at some point it didn't. i had to either adopt what my Master felt was an adequate level of kinky play and leave the rest to fantasy, or make a life change which i am not 1. interested in making or 2. in the position to change, as Owned property. So the only other possibility is a realignment of my beliefs. While this may seem a shallow topic compared to your struggle, it was a topic near and dear to my heart nonetheless. May i point out i strictly mean sex here. Our level of control is also a "kink" to me in that i get off on it and thoroughly enjoy it and crave and need it. We are all good there. But my Master had a few different ideas. It took awhile to reconcile all that in my head but i did and now i am happier in my own skin. It was never my decision to make, but you know, we put "labels" and expectations on everything, even our relationships. Again, i realize this is not the world-economic impact topic you were referring to, but this is what i came out of your question thinking about. 898-443-818 I was not looking for a world-economic impact topic... just a discussion of how people's beliefs have changed overtime. As for finding peace on this topic... I have long come to terms with the difference but was curious to know if others had experiences that changed their view of this lifestyle or their world view. I am a very literal thinker, and while I love dabbling in the abstract I live my life much simplier. So when I come across thoughts, ideas or externally defined labels that challenge my belief system I tend to take a look at them. I was never one to buy onto any kind of accepted norm (or label)... whether in this lifestyle or vanilla. So, while there are some who strive to live their life as defined by the terms in the TSR wiki... I am more likely to say 'ya whatever.' As my friends and family have long said... I have always marched to a different drummer and that drummer has always been of my own design not someone else's. Probably not a healthy mindset for a slave, but my Master accepts me as I am and loves to tease me endlessly about it. My Master has been one of very few people who has accepted, at face value who I am, and has not tried to change me or make me into something I am not. I have found it very freeing to march to my own drummer... the only expectations I have to live up to are my own. It has allowed me to explore this lifestyle free of fear and disappointment. I am continually evolving into a person that both my Master and I are satisfied with as it relates to how we live this lifestyle. I am a very happy soul, who is very happily in love with her Master, and he with me. Maybe if I had started this journey when I was twenty instead of 25 years later, I would be more willing and able to be the tabla rasa that some Master's seek. As it sits now, I just incorporate the new bits I learn about myself into the person who already is. "With courage you will dare to take risks, have the strength to be compassionate, and the wisdom to be humble. Courage is the foundation of integrity." ~ Keshavan Nair Edited 3 Nov 10, 6:34 PM by pet_ka_MJ 3 Nov 10, 8:43 PM 333-528-841 CA, 3 yrs pet_ka_MJ wrote: Unquestioned beliefs This got me to wondering if others had unquestioned beliefs about their Master slave dynamics. If so, what are they. And, what has caused - or could cause you - to question them. Edited to correct grammar and typos. While I have had no unquestioned beliefs about my dynamic, my beliefs on this lifestyle have changed in ways and I have certainly had questions in the past about other beliefs through the years. I will have to think more on exactly what and where. I can certainly understand why you have questions, considering the events you have witnessed and been involved in over the past few months. Self examination in any area of life is beneficial and can lead to growth and a deeper bond as it has with you and your Master. Great thread. Edited for typos etc. 333-528-841 Life shouldn't be measured by the breaths you take; but by the moments that take your breath away - unknown Edited 3 Nov 10, 8:46 PM by 333-528-841