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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "The principles and purposes of punishment" 1 2 The principles and purposes of punishment (16) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. 2 Sep 10, 8:05 PM slavegirl_nima FR, 2 yrs thegildedlili wrote: Master4536 wrote: To the non-masochistic slaves, if a Master beats you without any reason other than to "prove his dominance" or sets you up for failure just as a reason to beat you for his own sadistic pleasure, then HE has a mental problem and you should get out of there. The relationship isn't doing anyone any good, because there is no way in Hell that a slave could or should change their Master, or to even expect their Master to change. Such abuse has nothing to do with a Master-slave relationship or training. What if I am a "non-masochist" and he beats me because he is a sadist and does it simply because he likes it? Are you saying that if the slave doesn't enjoy it, then that makes it abuse? I'm really only a masochist in the sense that I get enjoyment out of having pain inflicted on me by a sadist because *he* enjoys it, but unless I'm confused, by your definition that would make him an abuser. I think there is a difference between beating someone to "prove the dominance" and beating someone because the sadist enjoys it and in my understanding Master4536 only meant the first. And well if you have to beat someone to prove you're dominant... Imho that is totally different to using the slave for something that gives you some pleasure. nima 2 Sep 10, 10:18 PM thegildedlili 3 yrs slavegirl_nima wrote: thegildedlili wrote: Master4536 wrote: To the non-masochistic slaves, if a Master beats you without any reason other than to "prove his dominance" or sets you up for failure just as a reason to beat you for his own sadistic pleasure, then HE has a mental problem and you should get out of there. The relationship isn't doing anyone any good, because there is no way in Hell that a slave could or should change their Master, or to even expect their Master to change. Such abuse has nothing to do with a Master-slave relationship or training. What if I am a "non-masochist" and he beats me because he is a sadist and does it simply because he likes it? Are you saying that if the slave doesn't enjoy it, then that makes it abuse? I'm really only a masochist in the sense that I get enjoyment out of having pain inflicted on me by a sadist because *he* enjoys it, but unless I'm confused, by your definition that would make him an abuser. I think there is a difference between beating someone to "prove the dominance" and beating someone because the sadist enjoys it and in my understanding Master4536 only meant the first. And well if you have to beat someone to prove you're dominant... Imho that is totally different to using the slave for something that gives you some pleasure. nima Thanks Nima, but I asked the question of Master4536 because only he knows with any certainly what he meant. You have simply paraphrased him, so your response hasn't shed any further light on my question. Master4535 specifically talks about non-masochistic slaves here, as if it's fine to beat someone to prove your dominance if the slave is also a masochist, *hence* my request to clarify his meaning. i have no need, for such things, but to make you happy... Josh Pyke 3 Sep 10, 8:57 PM 143-983-458 US, 6 yrs Y! Sir decided against using physical punishment on me as He didn't want whipping for punishment and whipping for pleasure to get confused in my head. i have noticed, however, that when He is in the mood for a more intense flogging session that my mind runs through everything i might have possibly done wrong and i resolve to do better. My wise-ass comments are a bit curtailed for some time after as well. One thing I have always liked about D/s is the punishment aspect. When i have erred and been punished it seems easier to forgive and move on. For me shame and humiliation don't connect with punishment, but i'd expect that to vary. taking my pleasure in His 4 Sep 10, 6:33 PM 983-993-228 21 mths i have talked to my Mistress about this subject many times, and am glad that She has the same opinion as me. i found an article about punishment v's discipline. i only changed child to slave so that it would apply to our situation. The word "Discipline" is derived from the word "Disciple", which means the follower of a teacher. This implies that the disciple learns from a teacher out of a belief for what the teacher has to offer and not out of fear for punishment. The true definition of discipline is thus the teaching of acceptable behaviour. But in today's world it has become synonymous with punishment. Owners set rules that are aligned to their own values and beliefs, so would it not be ideal that your slaves should follow these rules because they believe in it as well, rather than following it because they fear being punished. The goal of discipline is to get your slave to discipline themselves, but this can only happen if they believe in the rules. Discipline encourages your slave to control themselves from within ,whereas with punishment, the control depends on outside forces. This outside control usually involves some sort of pain or discomfort. What do you think this does to your slave's self esteem .But when you discipline your slave they learn independence and to take responsibility for their actions and to make their own choices based on mutually accepted rules. Punishment has the opposite effect, your slave is encouraged to rebel and be dishonest and dependent on you to make decisions on their behalf. Punishment usually involves depriving your slave of privileges or the application of pain in some form or other. The result of this is that your slave starts to fear making mistakes and they learn that using violence is an acceptable way of solving problems. With discipline you encourage your slave to learn from their mistakes and focus on the lesson to be learned from the situation. It also teaches constructive and respectful ways to solve problems. When you punish you focus on the slave and how he /she disappointed you, but when you use discipline you focus on the behavior rather than the slave. There are various other factors that go hand in hand with discipline such as communication, self esteem and confidence So in regarding to this, i know that some would say that they do not want their slave to be able to discipline themselves, i know my Owner does not want to have to keep repeating Herself each day to do what i should already know. She not only wants me to follow Her orders wether She is with me or out, but She wants me to be honest when giving Her my report of what i have done and not done. She will always be disciplining me, however, She hopes that one day She will not have to punish Her slave so much, unless of course She just feels like inflicting pain on Her slave, and in that case i would be honored to be of service to Her. That is my role in life, isn't it? 6 Sep 10, 9:13 AM The_Vicars_sin UK, 21 mths When I asked my Master about this He said " slave, a slave is like a child, she will misbehave now and then. Like a child if this is not corrected it could continue or get worse. Unlike a child a Master can spank His slave". So if a child is naughty you can place restrictions on the toys they are allowed to play with or having a friend stay over, basically removal of enjoyable activities. Master says a slave however you are allowed to spank and/or place a slave in a situation which would cause her some level of humiliation. This would be classed as abuse if done to a child. Owned by The_Kinky_Vicar who is all I want and need. 6 Sep 10, 3:54 PM 480-469-981 UK, 21 mths i do not see Mistress as often as i ought and i know that on meeting i will be questioned as to why i have not seen her and about my other 'errors'. i know i will be punished for my absence. When it is time for me to leave Mistress She may feel that i need chastising further - it is Her wish and i must accept it. That punishment can take many forms ... not only beating. (Sorry, i'm making a mess of this ... basically Mistress know's what is best for me) atmos1949a