The Ownership Flag and Icons    [other banners]

	TSR : Web boards : O&P : "Grieving for lost freedom" 1 2 Grieving for lost freedom (12) This post is on the O&P web board. Mon 12 Jul 10, 6:39 PM Gavriel US(GA), 5 yrs I'm engaged in a new enslavement and I'm struck by some very interesting parallels between the slave's emotional responses to each step of lost freedom, with Elisabeth Kuebler-Ross's stages of grief. Denial Anger Bargaining Depression Acceptance Each time she's confronted with a new realization of helplessness, it looks like we go through that cycle prety much exactly: we start with "I'm just playing at this, I don't really have to go along if I don't want to", which leads to anger (with both herself and me) when she can't sustain the denial; she'll try to negotiate with me in order to perpetuate the illusion of freedom, since offering an agreement is much more palatable than simply having power taken away, and when that doesn't work she'll settle briefly into a sad resignation before finally getting through to surrender and peace. The stages aren't always in that exact order, but then as I understand it the same is true for traditional grieving. Has anyone else noticed this? Are there any interesting insights from the grieving body of knowledge which would be useful during enslavement? 12 Jul 10, 10:24 PM 281-314-060 US(MN), 19 mths Forgive me for saying so - but if your sub is fighting submission so hard, are you SURE s/he wants to be that deeply submissive to you? 12 Jul 10, 10:25 PM 898-443-818 US, 4 yrs Gavriel wrote: Grieving for lost freedom I'm engaged in a new enslavement and I'm struck by some very interesting parallels between the slave's emotional responses to each step of lost freedom, with Elisabeth Kuebler-Ross's stages of grief. Denial Anger Bargaining Depression Acceptance Each time she's confronted with a new realization of helplessness, it looks like we go through that cycle prety much exactly: we start with "I'm just playing at this, I don't really have to go along if I don't want to", which leads to anger (with both herself and me) when she can't sustain the denial; she'll try to negotiate with me in order to perpetuate the illusion of freedom, since offering an agreement is much more palatable than simply having power taken away, and when that doesn't work she'll settle briefly into a sad resignation before finally getting through to surrender and peace. The stages aren't always in that exact order, but then as I understand it the same is true for traditional grieving. Has anyone else noticed this? Are there any interesting insights from the grieving body of knowledge which would be useful during enslavement? i find this very interesting! i would not say that i feel much of the denial, anger or depression. But that is because i love control, get off on it truly, and i rarely regret losing any freedoms. However, there has been 1 or 2 topics where it has been much more challenging-and i can say on THOSE losses of freedom, i have experienced all those emotions at one time or another. i don't have the "i'm just playing" reaction because it has been so long that i have been enslaved. i have experienced the anger & negotiation attempts, again, only on the few topics that were hard for me to accept. i cannot help much more as i have little experience in grieving. But i wanted to say i believe the gamete of emotions is similar. What i would say, and what has worked for me, is that consistency is the factor. When my emotions get crazy it is usually because life has gotten in the way of consistency & i need a not-so-gentle reminder of my place As with grief-that person is always gone so, that is consistent. Also, while my own Master is strict, the occasionally well placed kind word (not relenting on the Your wants but simply understanding it is hard for a slave on occasion to accept some things) is a very big help. While i don't expect Him to acquiesce on things His gentle support on occasion is a nice balance to His strictness. As a matter of fact, i enjoy the fact that He can be kind and still stand His ground on the matter. 898-443-818 i am a slave-i have no rights, no safewords, i do not say "no" to my Master. i do not have "limits". i have entered into consensual slavery, so that may help explain the views in my post. 12 Jul 10, 10:53 PM seresse US(PA), 19 mths Y! An interesting observation, and i was just thinking about the same thing the other day, only in a more vague way. i am aware of the stages of grieving, though i haven't spent a lot of time studying them or anything. What i do think is that there is some form of grieving for every single transition and change in our lives, though we may not be (or allow ourselves to be) aware of it, especially for things that we think of as "positive" events - like getting married, or moving to a better place. Because whatever thing you move into, you give up what you had before, and whether you liked it or not, it still was your life and your identity. So it makes all kinds of sense to me that you would observe that in the enslavement process. There are times when i am acutely aware of the freedoms i am giving up and i do feel sad and resistant, and even wonder if i am not making a mistake. So far it hasn't been too intense and i don't think it will be, since my Master is going slowly and letting me adjust and come to my own acceptance before moving it deeper. But as i go through the process i always find that the contentment and happiness i feel as his slave is far deeper and more important to me than my ego attachments to whatever freedoms i felt i had before. Don't know if any of that is interesting or useful to you, but it is what i thought of when i read your question. Hope it helps. seresse 13 Jul 10, 1:56 AM tainted_desire UK, 7 yrs Hmmmmm, ponders her reactions recently to being forced to stay of the smokes, when with recent events she really, really, really wants one or several again. td Edited 13 Jul 10, 1:57 AM by tainted_desire 13 Jul 10, 6:55 PM 375-295-503 UK, 23 mths I am familiar with Kubler-Rosss's grief model, but am not convinced it is relevant to the enslavement process. I think I would be a bit concerned myself if I went through those quite negative stages during my submission. I agree with Seresse, transitional stages are difficult and I think there are peaks and troughs whilst adjusting to any life changes. Enslavement however has many highs, after all a slave generally gains a lot whilst undergoing their training, otherwise who would benefit? Who wants to be a miserable, unwilling slave and who would want one!!! 18 Sep 10, 3:17 PM 783-203-909 US(RI), 2 yrs Y! 898-443-818 wrote: Gavriel wrote: i find this very interesting! i would not say that i feel much of the denial, anger or depression. But that is because i love control, get off on it truly, and i rarely regret losing any freedoms. However, there has been 1 or 2 topics where it has been much more challenging-and i can say on THOSE losses of freedom, i have experienced all those emotions at one time or another. i don't have the "i'm just playing" reaction because it has been so long that i have been enslaved. i have experienced the anger & negotiation attempts, again, only on the few topics that were hard for me to accept. i cannot help much more as i have little experience in grieving. But i wanted to say i believe the gamete of emotions is similar. What i would say, and what has worked for me, is that consistency is the factor. When my emotions get crazy it is usually because life has gotten in the way of consistency & i need a not-so-gentle reminder of my place As with grief-that person is always gone so, that is consistent. Also, while my own Master is strict, the occasionally well placed kind word (not relenting on the Your wants but simply understanding it is hard for a slave on occasion to accept some things) is a very big help. While i don't expect Him to acquiesce on things His gentle support on occasion is a nice balance to His strictness. As a matter of fact, i enjoy the fact that He can be kind and still stand His ground on the matter. 898-443-818 this girl completely agrees with this...she has not felt the "buck against the system" per se with her owner (her previous)...she is actually at complete peace with who she is as a slave and knows that whatever a potential owner (hypothetically if she did not have one) needs/wants/requires, she is to accept and take with grace...she doesn't think that she has ever felt the need to fight for her freedom as truly, she has always known and been trained to know in her heart and in being owned that her owner knows what is best for her and would not let anything bad happen to their property...she has not felt the things that you speak about in slavery....only when she lost her husband (almost) five years ago to complications from a car accident... Edited 18 Sep 10, 5:34 PM by 783-203-909 7 Oct 10, 1:04 AM frankenfurter80 16 mths Everyone is not the same. Slave might need more reward or punishment. The reaction will give you an idea of what you need to do more of. The hardest part is realizing and letting go of a slave because it's not working out. I'm not that experienced at this so take my advice for what it's worth. 1 penny. 7 Oct 10, 7:13 AM imdmb7 US(NY), 21 mths Y! isnt this the same proccess you have to go thru when you have an addiction before you can start the healing proccess? 8 Oct 10, 7:55 AM slavetasso DE, 22 mths Hi Everyone, i just want to share a few thoughts of me about that thread. i heard a lot about Elisabeth Kübler-Ross in my apprenticeship as a nurse and also in school, cause Elisabeth is a very popular scientist in my country. So, as i heard she was mainly researching, how people react on coming to know about their own soon death. She mostly did some kind of death research. Ok, i'm very new to this lifestyle and i've never experienced bargaining, depression and anger so far in my current connection. i mostly exerience fulfillment and satisfaction, cause i always feel that is what i want and all is mainly consensual. Sorry for my objections. Edited 8 Oct 10, 8:41 AM by slavetasso 8 Oct 10, 7:00 PM mia UK, 10 yrs Hi As someone who wanted and craved total submission to my master, i can identify completely with the gradual realisation of some freedoms being akin to grieving. Some things i had to give up were and continue to be easier than others, but there are some things i still find difficult. It was these things that still continue to 'pinch' that i got most upset by, despite the idea of them in theory being some of the hottest things about him controlling me. I have no access to my own money or bank anymore. As someone very financially independant before, this was very difficult to get my head around when it kicked in that this was forever. I came in from work one day, near the start of me living with him and i cried and cried and it wasn't because i wanted to buy anything and he wasn't letting me, it wasn't cos i needed to buy anything or anything similar it all. It was the realisation that something this big, something this basic to most people, had been taken from me and that in order to be in the relationship i need with the man i love, i had to submit to this. I realised this was not something just connected to orgasms, pain, lust, etc... It was very real and very difficult. None of what i've explained means i'm a shit slave or that Tanos and i aren't right for each other, or that he should go easier on me, or that i should have more limits, or whatever. It means i have gone through a transition of having had (access to) something and not having it ever again. I'd say that sounds very much like grieving to me. In the same way that if you loose a person, eventually you just get on with things and you get happy again, but there are also days when it gets hard again. x Next page