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	TSR : Web boards : O&P : "birds and the bees and the whips" 1 2 birds and the bees and the whips (14) Mon 19 Apr 10, 12:13 AM paloma US(TX), 6 mths Master Kurtz is requesting paloma to write this situation. paloma has a history of an abusive marriage that she escaped from a year ago. she has a daughter that witnessed this. the daughter witnessed the abuse, being hit, the fights and the mental abuse. Not only was paloma abused but the daughter as well. This daughter is eleven. Now that paloma and this daughter are living with Master, the majority of the time we are a regular vanilla family. However this daughter noticed some scratch marks on paloma from dungeon play. All consensual. This daughter is not ready for the talk about vanilla sex let alone BDSM play. Master and paloma have assured the daughter many times over that paloma is not being abused. In fact the daughter has been asked if there are any tell tale signs in the household. Master and paloma have NEVER argued, raised voices, and Master has never crossed the boundaries or engaged in dungeon roles in front of the this daughter. This daughter doesn't believe a single word Master and paloma are telling her. Master and paloma do not know how to explain the scratch marks in a way that the daughter will understand. Master and paloma would like to know if anyone out there has experienced this and how they handled this situation. eternally the slave of Master Kurtz also known as His paloma http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhsWs212tOE 19 Apr 10, 12:45 AM masteroutlo US(CA), 3 yrs Y! i'd suggest trying to limit scratches and bruises to areas of your body she will not see, or engage only in play that does not leave marks 19 Apr 10, 3:15 AM pet_ka_MJ CA, 9 mths Hmmmm... there is much going on in the background of your daughter's mind that she might not even be able to verbalize now or ever. Much of the abuse that your daughter experienced as the hands of your former partner has been internalized and will manifest in behaviour throughout her life. Your stable home environment now is helpful, and she may even deal with minor stratches on you from time to time. But, the mental damage to her psyche has already been done and it will be hit and miss as to what will trigger her back to previous childhood traumas and past abuse. There are many counselling programs available to children who are abused or who have witnessed abuse. In Canada we call them "stopping the violence counselling programs", not sure what they will be called in your area. You might want to seek one of these types of programs out for your daughter. Your local domestic violence prevention group might have some referrals for her or even your family doctor might be able to assist you. Good luck. With courage you will dare to take risks, have the strength to be compassionate, and the wisdom to be humble. Courage is the foundation of integrity. - Keshavan Nair 19 Apr 10, 3:46 AM bastets_daughter AU, 12 mths My father, when explaining anything that couldnt be said directly due to my lack of maturity, always (with a twinkle in his eye) would find a way to tell me it was the fault of aliens, or that aliens had caused it. Your daughter may be growing passed fairy tales, and doubtless, with the trauma of her past it would seem hard to escape seeing abuse in every bruise. If she wont believe any of the explanations ( realistic, or less so) it'd probably be easier to restrict the marks you get to things that are easily covered. Perhaps when she is older, this will all be just a funny story Goodluck 19 Apr 10, 4:35 AM concise US(CA), 4 mths I also agree that you should seek counseling for your daughter and also I am sure there are BDSM friendly counselors who could instruct you on how to handle your relationship with regards to your daughter. I don't think that hiding the marks are the solution. What if there comes a time when she maybe accidentally catches a glimpse of you and sees that you have been hiding the marks what would she think then? 19 Apr 10, 6:46 AM Malkinius US(IL), 4 yrs Greetings Paloma.... I am going to get all heretical on you here in the following suggestion. Tell her the truth. Yes, it means you are going to have to explain some things about sex and BDSM to an eleven year old who isn't going to believe half of what you say and thinks she already knows half of the rest and you don't need to tell her these things. It also means you have to develop a new trust with her....both of you. You need to do that anyway but the longer you deny it and hide it the more she will be convinced that the abuse is still happening and will happen to her. The suggestions to find kink friendly counselors are good ones. I know there are places online as well as books offline that help explain sex to children who are raised in societies (like ours) where such things are hidden. I would start there and work into the BDSM side in small bits. Be honest with her that these are adult things and she should have no part of them but that you are willingly doing this and you feel better for doing it. You could even say it is your way of coping with the former abuse. You are gaining something you wanted without the danger and without any danger for your child. Should you do this? That is up to you and your owner. But I can see a disaster in the process of happening. Expect the nice people from the government showing up on your doorstep to take both your daughter and Master away if it continues without doing something about it. I don't think anyone wants that. I do not know the best way to do this. I do know that it goes against the general consensus that children should know nothing about anything sexual or kinky. I disagree with the first part and sort of with the second part. Age and especially maturity appropriate information is one thing. Too much or too open can be worse and sometimes no information at all is the worst possible choice. Good fortune with it whatever happens. Be well.... Malkinius 19 Apr 10, 7:26 AM jbdogowner UK, 3 yrs paloma I would be supprised if your 11yr old didn't have a very good idea whats going on, she may well be secretly listening outside the bedroom door. If you cant explain marks in a way you feel she would understand then you have to avoid marks. I think it sounds all in all like you are doing everything right, you are comfortable with your Master, she sees you are both happy and I am sure you dont look like the frightened rat you did with your Ex Ive been through BDSM relationships with teenagers in tow and it is a roller coaster ride of compromise, but I am pleased to say all 3 of mine (21-17) have all come out as sane well adjusted adults. 19 Apr 10, 6:48 PM SirSeven US(FL), 17 mths paloma wrote: This daughter is eleven. Now that paloma and this daughter are living with Master, the majority of the time we are a regular vanilla family. However this daughter noticed some scratch marks on paloma from dungeon play. All consensual. This daughter is not ready for the talk about vanilla sex let alone BDSM play. Master and paloma have assured the daughter many times over that paloma is not being abused. In fact the daughter has been asked if there are any tell tale signs in the household. Master and paloma have NEVER argued, raised voices, and Master has never crossed the boundaries or engaged in dungeon roles in front of the this daughter. This daughter doesn't believe a single word Master and paloma are telling her. Aren't scratch marks a tell tale sign of abuse? If it were me, I would avoid having her see any marks from BDSM activities, period. If she talks with family members, friends, teachers, or other officials you might find yourself in a situation where you'll have a lot of explaining to do. Plus, she's probably worried that you are in fact being abused again. I'm assuming this isn't something you'd want her to be worrying about. 19 Apr 10, 6:50 PM pet_ka_MJ CA, 9 mths This issue is a bit bigger than explaining sex to a child or disclosing a BDSM relationship. Given that the OP indicated a previous history of abuse to herself and her child, a number of issues are at play that will impact how the child deals with the scratch marks on mom, explanations of sex and the disclosure of the BDSM relationship. The welfare of the child should be considered here first and as much as we would like to play arm chair psychologist and provide our two cents on what the OP should do, it is not in the best interest of the child to do so on this issue unless you specialize in the child psychology field and dealing with child abuse and children who witness family violence. As helpful as we all want to be, sometimes the most help thing to do is know that you are out of your element and refer the person to professionals who can deal with this matter. I offer the following as information only, and again suggest the OP seek out professional counselling for herself and her child. And then and only then, make the decision about what to discuss about the relationship between the Master and the child's mother. * * * * Domestic violence affects every member of the family, including the children. Family violence creates a home environment where children live in constant fear. Children who witness family violence are affected in ways similar to children who are physically abused. They are often unable to establish nurturing bonds with either parent. Statistics show that over 3 million children witness violence in their home each year. Those who see and hear violence in the home suffer physically and emotionally. "Families under stress produce children under stress. If a spouse is being abused and there are children in the home, the children are affected by the abuse." (Ackerman and Pickering, 1989) Children react to their environment in different ways, and reactions can vary depending on the child's gender and age. Children exposed to family violence are more likely to develop social, emotional, psychological and or behavioral problems than those who are not. Recent research indicates that children who witness domestic violence show more anxiety, low self esteem, depression, anger and temperament problems than children who do not witness violence in the home. The trauma they experience can show up in emotional, behavioral, social and physical disturbances that effect their development and can continue into adulthood. Some potential effects: Emotional Grief for family and personal losses. Shame, guilt, and self blame. Confusion about conflicting feelings toward parents. Fear of abandonment, or expressing emotions, the unknown or personal injury. Anger. Depression and feelings of helplessness and powerlessness. Embarrassment. Behavioral Acting out or withdrawing. Aggressive or passive. Refusing to go to school. Care taking; acting as a parent substitute. Lying to avoid confrontation. Rigid defenses. Excessive attention seeking. Bedwetting and nightmares. Out of control behavior. Reduced intellectual competency. Manipulation, dependency, mood swings. Social Isolation from friends and relatives. Stormy relationships. Difficulty in trusting, especially adults. Poor anger management and problem solving skills. Excessive social involvement to avoid home. Passivity with peers or bullying. Engaged in exploitative relationships as perpetrator or victim. Physical Somatic complaints, headaches and stomachaches. Nervous, anxious, short attention span. Tired and lethargic. Frequently ill. Poor personal hygiene. Regression in development. High risk play. Self abuse Age-specific indicators: Infants Basic need for attachment is disrupted. Routines around feeding/sleeping are disturbed. Injuries while "caught in the crossfire". Irritability or inconsolable crying. Frequent illness. Difficulty sleeping. Diarrhea. Developmental delays. Lack of responsiveness. Preschool Somatic or psychosomatic complaints. Regression. Irritability. Fearful of being alone. Extreme separation anxiety. Developmental delays. Sympathetic toward mother. Elmentary Age Vacillate between being eager to please and being hostile. Verbal about home life. Developmental delays. Externalized behavior problems. Inadequate social skill development. Gender role modeling creates conflict/confusion. Preadolescence Behavior problems become more serious. Increased internalized behavior difficulties: depression, isolation, withdrawal. Emotional difficulties: shame, fear, confusion, rage. Poor social skills. Developmental delays. Protection of mother, sees her as "weak". Guarded/secretive about family. Adolescence Internalized and externalized behavior problems can become extreme and dangerous: drug/alcohol, truancy, gangs, sexual acting out, pregnancy, runaway, suicidal. Dating relationships may reflect violence learned or witnessed in the home. With courage you will dare to take risks, have the strength to be compassionate, and the wisdom to be humble. Courage is the foundation of integrity. - Keshavan Nair Edited 19 Apr 10, 8:32 PM by pet_ka_MJ 19 Apr 10, 9:38 PM BlueMoon US(NJ), 5 mths you said the daughter doesn't believe a word you tell her. This implies she has some reason not to believe. Why should she believe you now? You claim it's all done with consent, but she's not given consent to be subjected to physical evidence of violence which is reminiscent of an abusive relationship, yet which you're clearly unable or unwilling to explain... probably just like the old days. What is she supposed to think? That abuse is ok so long as it's kept quiet, or so long as the person dishing it out says they love the recipient? For that seems to be the message you're sending her way. Suggest you quit playing in the dungeon for a while and take her along to psychotherapy. 20 Apr 10, 5:01 AM LordandMaster55 US(WV), 7 mths Y! I had a situation like that. (she was 10 at the time) The way I handled it was we told her that we 'play games' like football and the marks are from when her mother gets tackled. Later (after she turned 18) we explained it in more detail. She told us that anoligy explained it in a way she could understand at the time. Next page