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	TSR : Web boards : Internal Enslavement : "IS and not being owned" IS and not being owned (5) This post is on the Internal Enslavement web board. Sun 4 Apr 10, 6:59 PM taylor_209_847_694 3 yrs i will try to make my question clear and concise. i understand the theory of IE and have to say that i very quickly and naturally got to that point with my previous Master. so does one ever totally lose it once they have been there? or do you keep it with you always, in bits and pieces, until the next time making it easier to develop the IE with someone else? the reason i have started thinking about this is that when owned i was never allowed to wear jeans so of course one of the first things i did upon release was "rebel" and do everything i had not been allowed to do, trying to keep from hurting. but while walking through the mall a few days ago in jeans a thought entered my head that this is not who i am and i need to be out of the jeans. i came home, changed into a skirt, and haven't had them on since. so is it that my IE is still strong with Him or has the IE changed me on the inside? sorry, that wasn't very clear or concise but does get my question across, i think? belle 4 Apr 10, 8:44 PM Miss_Autumn CA, 4 yrs Well I obviously can't speak about this from a sub/slave perspective. But I do believe it does follow you in some form whether we notice or not. Not just in our IE M/s D/s relationships but in all relationships in our lives ... Perhaps it was a rule that made one M happy and you just got use to it, or it could have been a comment made about a certin style of clothing and that comment stuck with you and changed your perspective. Tell someone something long enough and they will start to believe it or follow it at some point. I'm not trying to say that everyone will break to pressure in everyway. Just merely saying that if it's something you take to heart now or then, it will usually follow you like a bad habbit. 4 Apr 10, 11:17 PM pet_ka_MJ CA, 2 yrs It is learned behaviour. Over the course of your training with your previous Master, you were given a negative reinforcer (punishment) to discourage you from wearing jeans. Think of Pavlov and his dog. Overtime, the behaviour becomes self-sustaining. If you wish to break the behaviour, and wear jeans again, you need to work through the discomfort and find a positive reinforcement to encourage wearing of jeans. If you wish to read up on this, google psychology, B.F. Skinner and behaviour. There is also a slave training website, that looks at slave training using this model. It takes the thinking out of being a slave, and puts in in the realm of automatic behaviour reesponse. Given that very little of human behaviour is instinctual anymore, behaviour can be learned and unlearned with the right amount of effort. If you do nothing to change the pattern of behaviour, you will carry this behaviour with you through life with little or no modification. With courage you will dare to take risks, have the strength to be compassionate, and the wisdom to be humble. Courage is the foundation of integrity. - Keshavan Nair Edited 4 Apr 10, 11:18 PM by pet_ka_MJ 5 Apr 10, 12:58 AM x_Ancilla_x 4 yrs pet_ka_MJ wrote: It is learned behaviour. Over the course of your training with your previous Master, you were given a negative reinforcer (punishment) to discourage you from wearing jeans. Think of Pavlov and his dog. Overtime, the behaviour becomes self-sustaining. If you wish to break the behaviour, and wear jeans again, you need to work through the discomfort and find a positive reinforcement to encourage wearing of jeans. If you wish to read up on this, google psychology, B.F. Skinner and behaviour. There is also a slave training website, that looks at slave training using this model. It takes the thinking out of being a slave, and puts in in the realm of automatic behaviour reesponse. Given that very little of human behaviour is instinctual anymore, behaviour can be learned and unlearned with the right amount of effort. If you do nothing to change the pattern of behaviour, you will carry this behaviour with you through life with little or no modification. I agree, although the reinforcement towards wearing skirts might also have been positive. I think it's interesting that belle feels "This is not who I am" when wearing jeans so the conditioning has had an effect on her sense of identity, rather than some other thought coming up, for example "I shouldn't be doing this". But then I think the whole internal enslavement concept is just that, a process of conditioning which changes one's sense of identity. belle if your next Master doesn't like skirts and wants you to dress some other way, then I suspect that eventually that will become 'who you are' too. pet ka is right, if you still want to wear jeans, perhaps as a gesture to show you're no longer owned by your previous Master, you can probably condition yourself to feel comfortable doing so. As for taking the thinking out of being a slave and putting it in the realm of automatic behaviour responses, behaviour can certainly change thoughts (and self concept as we've seen), but it can work the other way around as well, change the thoughts and changed behaviour flows from that. Thus training interventions that are cognitive in nature can also be effective - in my opinion. Whether the OP will carry this behaviour pattern through life with her if she does nothing to change it is debatable I think. Occurrences from the environment might act as reinforcers in the opposite direction - norms in friendship groups, the media, society at large for instance. 5 Apr 10, 7:03 AM Malkinius US(IL), 5 yrs Greetings belle... The responders so far have been giving you mostly correct information. If IE occurred or you got a fair ways towards it you were conditioned to certain behaviors, probably through multiple methods. That conditioning will stay with you for a while. How long depends on many factors. Different things will have a different decay rate (dwell is the term I use) for each thing. Some things will change quickly and some will last a lifetime. There are many kinds of conditioning that work. Any and all can be used in training a slave depending on the knowledge, skill, interest and ability of the trainer. I have no idea what your former owner used with you. Love can be a very big one as well as people will do things for people they love that they wouldn't do for anyone else. Once the reinforcement of your former owner is gone, the conditioning will fade to some extent unless there is other reinforcement. You provide some of that reinforcement. In some things, your owner may have taught you a better way to do things and you keep doing them because it was better. Things like not wearing pants is a common slave restriction and there usually is no reason other than personal preference for you to keep doing it and yes, your rebelling against an obvious restriction is common. That rebellion will fade over time as well unless you have other factors reinforcing it. This is a complicated thing to both do and describe and there is no universal answer that applies to everyone and every situation. Most trainers do this without really understanding the process and both what they are doing and how it implants and goes away. Be well... Malkinius 6 Apr 10, 12:09 PM taylor_209_847_694 3 yrs Thank you to all for your responses. The psychological aspect of D/s has always fascinated me so of course i am scrutinizing my responses to being released. i do know that i have changed inside with the knowledge and acceptance of being submissive. Not sure if that is a result of IE or just the knowledge of who i am, but there are habits and behaviors that have been ingrained and i am a different person than i was a year ago. thanks again to all for the kind words, the advice and the information.