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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "Being slave as a 24/7 paid job." 1 2 3 Being slave as a 24/7 paid job. (24) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. Mon 8 Feb 10, 10:53 AM Sir_Aldric 4 yrs I had a discussion with a Master who got a bit unlucky with some D/s relations over the last years and he made the remark that he got frustrated and wanted to go back in time to the old days where one could simply select & buy a slave from a oriental market (ok, maybe he was himself to blame for messing up those relations, but that's not the discussion here.. It made me think: buying a slave nowadays is a criminal offense, but still a slave would be allowed to sell herself 24/7 to the highest bidder. To do that for a life time might not be feasible for both sides, but I guess for a fixed (short) period it could theoretically be possible for both parties. A sort of 24/7 paid job for an X-period based upon a contract with regulates everything between Master and slave. A contract which covers all, from the intervals of payments to arrive at slave's bank account, rules for termination the contract, slave's visits & phone calls to others, how a slave should behave in public, etceteras, etceteras. Just a a 'normal' legally job contract which protects the rights of both employer and employee; set-up, agreed & signed by both. Did anybody hear if this ever was implemented in reality and if so how did that work out? NOTE: edited (read my post underneath) because the description 'job' is misleading; 'paid service' is a better choice. Relax, life is too short to get upset. Edited Mon 8 Feb 10, 7:20 PM by Sir_Aldric 8 Feb 10, 11:02 AM 562-470-768 2 yrs this girl sees this sort of thing a lot on second life... and she can say that there are many slaves and Owners very happy with such arrangements.. and there are many not so happy. is a gamble really, as with anything else. one may become emotionally involved where the other does not. one may want to call an end to it before the contract is up. and 'out' clause is very important in these cases - but this girl has only seen in the second life setting. to her.. she does not want to be rude or disrespectful, but she would imagine it is not so very different than having a prostitute on a payroll living in your home. to this girl, that M/s D/s bond is sacred in the sense that you give and you give completely. there should be no strings attached and as with all things financial and where emotions is great participant... there are too many strings attached for her liking. why does this Owner with his bad luck then frequent a fetish club or dungeon where he can be a free agent? what you suggest has rather serious law implications regarding taxes, employment registrations. you are employee as a slave, and employer as a Owner. Owners would stand most to loose under the law. if the slave has a fit under emotional strain, he/she can sue for workman's compensations... *shakes head* unless it falls under a unlawfull way of doing (which makes it prostitution in a sense - sorry that word again) this could turn UHGLY, FAST. ps: girl has a contract with her master that covers the aspects mentioned, and she is certain tehre are a good few who has similar contracts. We are all vanilla to some degree - for society will keep a foothold in our lives. We are all Dom/mes or slave/sub on some level, as there is ALWAYS someone weaker or stronger than you... Edited 8 Feb 10, 11:10 AM by 562-470-768 8 Feb 10, 1:15 PM eves_s 2 yrs I think it's possible to work out a contract that's legal. Like contracts for private personal. And as to every legal contract U can add paragraphs to regulate the conditions... Like service is 10 days long, then 1 day off. Things like that would make it possible to have a legal slave at your place... And under the right conditions I would sign such a contract myself... 8 Feb 10, 1:46 PM 562-470-768 2 yrs 440-009-080 wrote: I think it's possible to work out a contract that's legal. Like contracts for private personal. And as to every legal contract U can add paragraphs to regulate the conditions... Like service is 10 days long, then 1 day off. Things like that would make it possible to have a legal slave at your place... And under the right conditions I would sign such a contract myself... Once you 'employ' someone, you are an employer. once you recieve money for a job done, you are by law bound to pay taxes. once you are paying someone for work, you are by law bound to adhere to rules of that station. even employing a domestic cleaner is not as it used to be. on top of all that... you are also then responsible for all immigration requirements. this girl objects to this. to her, if you want a job, go get one... if you want a slave, invest the proper time and effort in it. there are too much at risk, mentally and physically and leagally for this girl, to even consider this matter seriously. a slave does not get paid to be a slave, in fact my contract forbids me to have any money or property etc. a slave does not get satisfaction or negotiate terms and conditions under which they are a slave. this of course is all the thoughts of this one girl. she hears alarm bells, and gosh does she listen when she hears them. We are all vanilla to some degree - for society will keep a foothold in our lives. We are all Dom/mes or slave/sub on some level, as there is ALWAYS someone weaker or stronger than you... 8 Feb 10, 1:57 PM eves_s 2 yrs I know what u want to say... I agree, when u say that a slave should have no rights... But no payment? How do you think roman slaves were able to buy themselves free? They were allowed to work in even higher positions and were paid for this... and they even had times off... but still were slaves. In my opinion u have to be in a relationship to be a slave to someone in our days. But a contract could make it more intensive. Noone said that you don't have to pay taxes, etc. But I find it thrilling to have a contract saying that I get fired if I don't do what I am told... with all consequence like loosing mistress and place to live etc... If U find any mistakes in grammar, etc, please note that I am german and no native speaker... Edited 8 Feb 10, 2:18 PM by eves_s 8 Feb 10, 2:20 PM 562-470-768 2 yrs 440-009-080 wrote: I know what u want to say... I agrre, when u say that a slave should have no rights... But no payment? How do you think roman slaves were able to buy themselves free? They were allowed to work in even higher positions and were paid for this... and they even had times off... but still were slaves. In my opinion u have to be in a relationship to be a slave to someone in our days. But a contract could make it more intensive. Noone said that you don't have to pay taxes, etc. But I find it thrilling to have a contract saying that I get fired if I don't do what I am told... with all consequence like loosing mistress and place to live etc... If U find any mistakes in grammar, etc, please note that I am german and no native speaker... this girl don't care for grammar and such, as she herself is not english. *smiles big* this girl did however state that she does have a contract. it is very intense for sure, and it is a rather big deal. where others have vows, she has a contract, where others have a wedding ring, she has a collar. you are right in saying that this girl follow the more 'modern' ways of slavery and she will never dispute that. partly because we live in a modern world where laws and regulations are placed for valid reasons. there are laws against the other forms of slavery for a reason. abuse being one of them. safe sane and consensual should always be at the forefront. just because a 12year old is mature and wants to be a slave, does not mean it is leagal. contract or not. it is a personal matter for this girl, and she has no objection to anyone else's ways of thinking on it. as she has stated, it is her own opinions. Lesson in History:: Roman Slaves were the property of their masters and were slaves until the day they died. Roman Slaves - Freedom Occasionally slaves were granted their freedom. There were several methods by which a slave could be freed: Per censum, when a slave with his master's knowledge inserted his name in the censor's roll Per vindictam, when a master, taking his slave to the praetor, or consul (in the provinces to the pro-consul or pro-praetor) said, “I desire that this man be free, according to the custom of the Romans”and the praetor, if he approved, putting a rod on the head of the slave, pronounced, "I say that this man is free, after the manner of the Romans." At this point the lictor (bodyguard) or master turning him round in a circle, and giving him a blow on the cheek, let him go; signifying that leave was granted him to go, wherever he pleased Per testamentum, when a master gave his slaves their liberty by his will. Roman Slaves that had a useful or productive skill, were highly valued and would be well looked after. A Roman Master who had spent a lot of money purchasing a slave who was an excellent cook would want to make sure he got value for money and lots of good cooking out of the slave - so the slave was cared for, fed well and kept comfortable. This enabled the slave to do his/her job better. the slaves were rather poor to begin with, and although they COULD by law buy themselves free with the same amount of money their Owners paid for them at purchase - this rarely happened as they COULD NOT afford it in their lifetime! and even once they MANAGED to buy themselves free, they could never become a full citizen which was a daunting experience in itself. We are all vanilla to some degree - for society will keep a foothold in our lives. We are all Dom/mes or slave/sub on some level, as there is ALWAYS someone weaker or stronger than you... 8 Feb 10, 2:48 PM eves_s 2 yrs Thanx for this lesson! But as U say, they were allowed to buy themselves free... please excuse for the example. Simply saying 'in Rome' was not correct without saying at what time... I agree, we live today and it is very good to have protection in so many ways. But it should be possible to make consensual contract with mistress and slave, master and slave etc... And if u come to this point, u should try a contract as the one above. Of course you have to pay taxes, of course you are employer, etc. but then it is more than 'just' a contract without validity by law... 8 Feb 10, 3:00 PM 562-470-768 2 yrs 440-009-080 wrote: Thanx for this lesson! But as U say, they were allowed to buy themselves free... please excuse for the example. Simply saying 'in Rome' was not correct without saying at what time... I agree, we live today and it is very good to have protection in so many ways. But it should be possible to make consensual contract with mistress and slave, master and slave etc... And if u come to this point, u should try a contract as the one above. Of course you have to pay taxes, of course you are employer, etc. but then it is more than 'just' a contract without validity by law... this girl is sure you don't mean to say that her contract is 'just a contract' without validity by law *chuckles* any law would recognise this agreement between herself and Master in event of abuse reports, physical harm (delibirate or accidental), and various other 'disputes'. Truth is, to each their own - however, there is a very fine line between abuse and D/s - M/s relationships as it is. there is also a very fine line between the oldest profession in the world and what is being suggested above. As this girl pointed out, she's seen this in practice in the virtual world. she's seen what a mess it can be there.. she shudders to imagine what it would be like in reality. one would also have to take in consideration that one has to abide by the law. this means too, that even if you pay for domestic services, you have to be a registered employee. and if you pay for domestic services and sexual services... you are now blurring the lines of acceptable and unacceptable lawful behaviour. this girl is sure there are many households where the owned soul gets given money to uphold the household, to sort out debt etc... there are even more who has their own jobs and bank accounts, and even a margin of privacy attached to that. this girl would however state again that if you want to be a slave doing a job and getting paid for it... there are professions that caters for this legally and illegally...be careful how you present this matter and of course... which side of the law you are standing. girl appreciate your writing, and does not feel you need to apologise for anything. We are all vanilla to some degree - for society will keep a foothold in our lives. We are all Dom/mes or slave/sub on some level, as there is ALWAYS someone weaker or stronger than you... 8 Feb 10, 3:51 PM eves_s 2 yrs Of course I respect your contract as a real contract. I do a lot more than lawyers in Germany would do. To me a contract as yours is a lot more worth than the above mentioned. Because it is made with love... But still I think that a contract like the one above is possible. Ther will allways be doubts about its correctness. And for sure U need a lawyer to make this contract. It is so easy to be against public policy. 8 Feb 10, 4:32 PM pet_ka_MJ CA, 2 yrs 562-470-768 wrote: this girl is sure you don't mean to say that her contract is 'just a contract' without validity by law *chuckles* any law would recognise this agreement between herself and Master in event of abuse reports, physical harm (delibirate or accidental), and various other 'disputes'. No the law (particularly criminal law) would not recognize your contract. If you wish to report abusive behaviour, report it. But do not expect that you can turn up in a police station and say "well our contract says" he can do X but not Y, so Y is abuse. First, the investigating officer will be hard pressed to take you seriously (you are going to generate a lot of chuckles in the police station coffee room for that one) and, secondly, the police officer will look at all behavours as an aggregate and charge the subject of the complaint accordingly regardless of what your contract says. You might also want to consider that if you have children in the home and you walk into the police department to lodge a complain based on your contract, that you will be receiving a visit from a child protection worker. In most instances the child(ren) will be left in the home if the worker is sure there will not be a continuance of the offence. However if the worker cannot with any degree of comfort believe this is the case, you could very well see your child(ren) removed from your home. I would not be all that quick to pull that contract out and show it to the child protection worker either, you will receive very little support or sympathy for it and it could very well work against you. With courage you will dare to take risks, have the strength to be compassionate, and the wisdom to be humble. Courage is the foundation of integrity. - Keshavan Nair Edited 8 Feb 10, 4:33 PM by pet_ka_MJ 8 Feb 10, 4:35 PM 562-470-768 2 yrs pet_ka_MJ wrote: 562-470-768 wrote: this girl is sure you don't mean to say that her contract is 'just a contract' without validity by law *chuckles* any law would recognise this agreement between herself and Master in event of abuse reports, physical harm (delibirate or accidental), and various other 'disputes'. No the law (particularly criminal law) would not recognize your contract. If you wish to report abusive behaviour, report it. But do not expect that you can turn up in a police station and say "well our contract says" he can do X but not Y, so Y is abuse. First, the investigating officer will be hard pressed to take you seriously (you are going to generate a lot of chuckles in the police station coffee room for that one) and, secondly, the police officer will look at all behavours as an aggregate and charge the subject of the complaint accordingly regardless of what your contract says. You might also want to consider that if you have children in the home and you walk into the police department to lodge a complain based on your contract, that you will be receiving a visit from a child protection worker. In most instances the child(ren) will be left in the home if the worker is sure there will not be a continuance of the offence. However if the worker cannot with any degree of comfort believe this is the case, you could very well see your child(ren) removed from your home. I would not be all that quick to pull that contract out and show it to the child protection worker either, you will receive very little support or sympathy for it and it could very well work against you. this girl think you kinda got stuck on her personal contract and what she was saying about it. her contract with Master, may be used in evidence as any piece of written paper with your signiture may be used. this debate, however was more focussed on employing, in a 'leagal' capacity a paid slave - to which this girl objects. is all. Edit:: one may want to consider how one phrase things, as it may be seen as personal attack or threat. girl apologise if THIS is how her writing came about. We are all vanilla to some degree - for society will keep a foothold in our lives. We are all Dom/mes or slave/sub on some level, as there is ALWAYS someone weaker or stronger than you... Edited 8 Feb 10, 4:39 PM by 562-470-768 Next page