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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "Do you think it's possible . . . ?" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Do you think it's possible . . . ? (92) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. 19 Jan 10, 11:54 PM 741-498-880 4 yrs Maleficent_Smiles wrote: EvaMaria wrote: And it could be argued, particularly in the case of women, that a role-model of self-sufficiency and actualization is important if for no other reason than that it's what's needed to navigate a society the child is most likely to want to be part of. Eva This is the bit I clumsily tried to articulate in my post. To Jakesemma: I didn't mean to imply that raising a child with open D/s parents will result in a damaged child, I was suggesting that the choice whether the father or mother are sub or Dom/me is up to the particular kinks of the parents (I am not trivializing D/s to kinks, but in the great scheme of things, it is closer to that than to anything else), and is therefore a very specific choice for them based on those kinks, not on broad life morals. This limits how the kid will then percieve the rest of the world...It reminds me of teaching a child a specific religion, and telling it that this is the only belief system acceptable... I am not saying "don't be yourself" in front of your kids, but maybe show a different side of yourself than you would in the privacy of being just with your partner. I don't agree that kids need to be taught authority in order to not be horrible little brats later on, they need to be taught respect, compassion etc... Again, I am not saying terrible things will happen if a kid is brought up with openly D/s parents, it is just not something that I am personally comfrotable with, and will not practice it openly in front of mine. I disagree that I need to be "equal" in the sense of being on the same footing as my partner in front of a child, or anyone else. I am fine with YOU not being comfortable with it, but for me, I am not fine pretending that I need to have equality in any fashion to exist in my household for my child to grow up with a well rounded education or examples of life. what I see is being an issue is the statement you quoted of Evas... That type of idea is laughable at best to me. Reason being? this type of idea is what the entire feminist movement was for. the freedom to choose how *we* as women WANT to live and the ability to do it with out being forced to do it in ways that don't jive with our personal, moral or ethical beliefs... I choose to live this way. Thats my choice and the fact that women would tell me how it might be wrong to raise my children in that environment goes against everything I believe the feminism movement stood for. the right to choose. Edited 20 Jan 10, 12:02 AM by 741-498-880 20 Jan 10, 12:07 AM 741-498-880 4 yrs One last thought. I can take away the labels of my relationship with my Owner. that doesn't change who we are as people or how we naturally interact and respond to each other. there is no way I could fake or pretend to be something I wasn't, or fake my reactions, or my natural responses to my Owner. I just behave naturally to him, when he says something, I obey, its just how I am wired to respond to him. Its a part of who I am and a part of my personality that I couldn't fake or pretend wasn't real. I couldn't be able to keep a farce or a lie up in front of my children. not only does that go against everything I personally believe in when it comes to being true to your nature and being honest with yourself about who you are, and acknowledging your strengths and weaknesses... how could I look my child in the face, attempt to teach them those lessons, while pretending to be something I wasn't. I don't personally believe I have to be an equal. I don't believe that equality has anything to do with me, my life, my relationship, or anything else. It just isn't a part of my reality. I can take away the labels of our M/s dynamic and it doesn't change how I react or what my nature is and how i naturally respond to my Owner. I am what I am. I am not pretending to be something I am not because other people feel that its not healthy for a child not to see a woman behave submissively to their partner. Edited 20 Jan 10, 12:10 AM by 741-498-880 20 Jan 10, 12:25 AM pinklucy UK, 3 yrs Children are incredibly perceptive. The thing is Maleficent Smiles, that unless you are prepared to completely erase the dynamic you live in during the waking hours of your children then they will notice things. My 4 year old certainly did. Personally, I think what is important is that children view a relationship that is happy over all, where people treat each other respectfully and where conflict can be resolved effectively. The individual dynamics of people's relationships are just that - individual dynamics, and can be explained as such. My son noticed that I always made the drinks for my partner/Mistress and also for visitors to the house. He asked why. I think it didn't seem fair to him. I said that for one thing it is sometimes just easier to have one person doing one job, but I also explained that it made me happy to do that. He had certainly noticed by age 3 that I did what my partner/Mistress said, but he also seemed to pick up on the inherent pleasure and playfulness involved and it certainly didn't upset him. He did ask me directly once why I had to do everything my partner said and again I re-iterated that it made us happy to do things that way. I don't worry that he will grow up thinking that this is the only way to be in a relationship because he will see vanilla relationships all around him as he grows up and we talk about everything, so at the appropriate time I'm sure more detailed discussion of relationships will arise. I tend to think that an insight into a less mainstream path is more useful for children anyway because they will see the mainstream all around them, where as seeing something different helps them to view alternatives as a genuine choice. So yes, I believe it is perfectly possible to live this lifestyle around children in an appropriate way. Many many relationships have power dynamics. At least we can express to our children that our relationships are this way because *we choose them to be that way because it makes us happy* and not because 'women have to do what men say', or 'Daddy is useless at making decisions' or 'because a particular religious book says I have to do as I'm told' or any number of more negative or prescriptive reasons that may be given for relationships with an unequal balance of power. Edited 20 Jan 10, 12:27 AM by pinklucy 20 Jan 10, 12:32 AM 741-498-880 4 yrs amatae wrote: Children are incredibly perceptive. The thing is Maleficent Smiles, that unless you are prepared to completely erase the dynamic you live in during the waking hours of your children then they will notice things. My 4 year old certainly did. Personally, I think what is important is that children view a relationship that is happy over all, where people treat each other respectfully and where conflict can be resolved effectively. The individual dynamics of people's relationships are just that - individual dynamics, and can be explained as such. My son noticed that I always made the drinks for my partner/Mistress and also for visitors to the house. He asked why. I think it didn't seem fair to him. I said that for one thing it is sometimes just easier to have one person doing one job, but I also explained that it made me happy to do that. He had certainly noticed by age 3 that I did what my partner/Mistress said, but he also seemed to pick up on the inherent pleasure and playfulness involved and it certainly didn't upset him. He did ask me directly once why I had to do everything my partner said and again I re-iterated that it made us happy to do things that way. I don't worry that he will grow up thinking that this is the only way to be in a relationship because he will see vanilla relationships all around him as he grows up and we talk about everything, so at the appropriate time I'm sure more detailed discussion of relationships will arise. I tend to think that an insight into a less mainstream path is more useful for children anyway because they will see the mainstream all around them, where as seeing something different helps them to view alternatives as a genuine choice. So yes, I believe it is perfectly possible to live this lifestyle around children in an appropriate way. Many many relationships have power dynamics. At least we can express to our children that our relationships are this way because *we choose them to be that way because it makes us happy* and not because 'women have to do what men say', or 'Daddy is useless at making decisions' or 'because a particular religious book says I have to do as I'm told' or any number of more negative or prescriptive reasons that may be given for relationships with an unequal balance of power. This is how i've explained things to vanilla friends. My son's never bothered to ask questions about a lot of that stuff yet, because to him it seems perfectly normal, but he's been raised this way his entire life and it doesn't seem weird for him. We've just always told him that we have different jobs in life and it makes things much easier to have it so it balances out instead of fighting to do the same job as the other person. 20 Jan 10, 12:36 AM francesca 2 yrs i'm not going to get into the nitty gritty battle that seems to be unfolding. instead i'll just talk about what i know. i was raised to be a strong, independent woman. One of my biggest fears with my daughter was that if i lived D/s, would she see me as a pushover and in turn either 1) have no respect for me, or 2) no be as strong as i was. i CHOSE to become a slave and for me, i have struggled through the entire journey because i am so independent and i tell it like it is. That had been an issue with my former Master. Now that she's here, i don't know that her seeing Momma kneel to a Man is the right thing to teach her. This is MY opinion, don't attack me for my opinion on this please. i think she needs to learn to be strong and if she chooses to be sub or slave, will be her choice at a later time. 20 Jan 10, 12:42 AM 741-498-880 4 yrs unowned_property wrote: i'm not going to get into the nitty gritty battle that seems to be unfolding. instead i'll just talk about what i know. i was raised to be a strong, independent woman. One of my biggest fears with my daughter was that if i lived D/s, would she see me as a pushover and in turn either 1) have no respect for me, or 2) no be as strong as i was. i CHOSE to become a slave and for me, i have struggled through the entire journey because i am so independent and i tell it like it is. That had been an issue with my former Master. Now that she's here, i don't know that her seeing Momma kneel to a Man is the right thing to teach her. This is MY opinion, don't attack me for my opinion on this please. i think she needs to learn to be strong and if she chooses to be sub or slave, will be her choice at a later time. I think its the equating weakness with submission thing that makes me speak up about this entire issue. I think it takes more personal strength to trust and submit, and follow the lead of someone else, than be independant, strong and only trust yourself. That type of mindset is what made me so unhappy growing up and I resented my grandparents for pushing me to be a "unique individual" who didn't need a man, and felt like something was wrong with me for being wired the way I was. I think being who you are, and encouraging your children to be who they are and that its okay is far more important. I also believe you should lead by example. If you TRULY believe its okay to be submissive, be who you are, and be proud of who you are. Your daughter will have more respect for you in the long run if you can look her in the eyes and go "I trust you to make the right choices for you life, and I am making the ones for mine because they make me happy." kids would much rather have happy parents, than societies idea of what parents should be. Edited 20 Jan 10, 12:46 AM by 741-498-880 20 Jan 10, 12:50 AM francesca 2 yrs i thrived on being a "unique individual" and her name was picked so she wouldnt be another jenny or emily (sorry all with those names. its not a dig on you). She needs to know that she CAN do things alone if she has to. that she DOESN'T need a Man to do things for her. to teach otherwise is crippling. 20 Jan 10, 12:57 AM 741-498-880 4 yrs unowned_property wrote: i thrived on being a "unique individual" and her name was picked so she wouldnt be another jenny or emily (sorry all with those names. its not a dig on you). She needs to know that she CAN do things alone if she has to. that she DOESN'T need a Man to do things for her. to teach otherwise is crippling. I thrive on being a unique individual too... i am a unique person who has the need to kneel at a man's feet and is wired to be subservient to a strong, alpha male. I'd be lying, and fitting to society's idea of what I should be if I did otherwise. I am doing what feels right to me, which is breaking the mold. personally, I think people who feel this way are insecure and doubting their own choices and feel they are weak for making these choices, I think these types of feelings come from doubting that your doing the right thing or that your weak for feeling the way you do. It's a shame really. but, you do what you gotta do, and do what you feel is right, and in the end, that is what matters. 20 Jan 10, 12:57 AM pinklucy UK, 3 yrs unowned_property wrote: i'm not going to get into the nitty gritty battle that seems to be unfolding. instead i'll just talk about what i know. i was raised to be a strong, independent woman. One of my biggest fears with my daughter was that if i lived D/s, would she see me as a pushover and in turn either 1) have no respect for me, or 2) no be as strong as i was. i CHOSE to become a slave and for me, i have struggled through the entire journey because i am so independent and i tell it like it is. That had been an issue with my former Master. Now that she's here, i don't know that her seeing Momma kneel to a Man is the right thing to teach her. This is MY opinion, don't attack me for my opinion on this please. i think she needs to learn to be strong and if she chooses to be sub or slave, will be her choice at a later time. I know this might sound contradictory, but I do sympathise with your position here. If I were heterosexual and had a daughter I think I would have more concerns too. I would be more wary of the gendered implications for a girl growing up in a world where women are still not equal citizens. However, I believe that I would still come down on the side of being true to myself and maintaining open discussion with my daughter. I would point out different circumstances around us (preferably including some relationships where men had chosen to be submissive to a woman) and still aim for the idea that all relationships carry an individual dynamic. I think my son noticed our D/s dynamic partly because it is so contradictory with the way I am at all other times. I *am* strong and independent in many ways, and capable of doing what needs to be done. (unless it's DIY )I don't believe that him witnessing my willing submission to one person has given him the impression that I (or for that matter all women) must be weak. It is certainly possible to show strength in submission. I can even imagine it could be incorporated into your dynamic somehow - that part of your submission could be an obligation for you to regularly demonstrate your strength and capability to your daughter. Submission needn't manifest as you bowing and scraping on your knees for your daughter to witness. It could just as likely be an instruction to find out how to re-wire a plug and teach your daughter how to do it! She needn't know that you are also doing it to obey your Master. 20 Jan 10, 1:00 AM 741-498-880 4 yrs amatae wrote: unowned_property wrote: i'm not going to get into the nitty gritty battle that seems to be unfolding. instead i'll just talk about what i know. i was raised to be a strong, independent woman. One of my biggest fears with my daughter was that if i lived D/s, would she see me as a pushover and in turn either 1) have no respect for me, or 2) no be as strong as i was. i CHOSE to become a slave and for me, i have struggled through the entire journey because i am so independent and i tell it like it is. That had been an issue with my former Master. Now that she's here, i don't know that her seeing Momma kneel to a Man is the right thing to teach her. This is MY opinion, don't attack me for my opinion on this please. i think she needs to learn to be strong and if she chooses to be sub or slave, will be her choice at a later time. I know this might sound contradictory, but I do sympathise with your position here. If I were heterosexual and had a daughter I think I would have more concerns too. I would be more wary of the gendered implications for a girl growing up in a world where women are still not equal citizens. However, I believe that I would still come down on the side of being true to myself and maintaining open discussion with my daughter. I would point out different circumstances around us (preferably including some relationships where men had chosen to be submissive to a woman) and still aim for the idea that all relationships carry an individual dynamic. I think my son noticed our D/s dynamic partly because it is so contradictory with the way I am at all other times. I *am* strong and independent in many ways, and capable of doing what needs to be done. (unless it's DIY )I don't believe that him witnessing my willing submission to one person has given him the impression that I (or for that matter all women) must be weak. It is certainly possible to show strength in submission. I can even imagine it could be incorporated into your dynamic somehow - that part of your submission could be an obligation for you to regularly demonstrate your strength and capability to your daughter. Submission needn't manifest as you bowing and scraping on your knees for your daughter to witness. It could just as likely be an instruction to find out how to re-wire a plug and teach your daughter how to do it! She needn't know that you are also doing it to obey your Master. this is exactly how I feel. Next page