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	TSR : Web boards : Internal Enslavement : "Hazing and IE or M/s " Hazing and IE or M/s (3) This post is on the Internal Enslavement web board. Sun 17 Jan 10, 9:07 PM kneeltofly US, 2 yrs This is the first post i have ever made so please be kind i have been lurking on the boards for about two years and want to thank everyone for sharing. i am now happily owned. i mentioned to Master that i remembered research from a long time ago that studied college fraternity/sorority hazing rituals. The study was done in 1959 and its outcome suggested that the harsher the hazing rituals (the more pain, humiliation, etc) the more positive the participants felt about the group and the people in them. In general, people who endured hardship to join a group, valued that group more. i thought the study had some implications for the Internal Enslavement and M/s dynamics. And might account for why slaves have a tendency to speak extremely highly of their Masters. Just wondering what everyone else thought. kneeltofly 17 Jan 10, 10:24 PM EvaMaria US(CA), 3 yrs I've not seen the study you speak of but my first question would be whether any information was gathered to show the effect wasn't the other way round. What I know of human nature says that the member's willingness to submit was more likely a result of their admiration of the society. Eva (The property formerly known as Camille ) 18 Jan 10, 1:33 AM 333-528-841 CA, 3 yrs What would have been hazing in the 1950's and what is hazing now are really 2 different things. Back in the 1950's and even 1960's, it was a more socially excepted practice and those being hazed accepted what the rituals were. It was then more of an initiation than actual hazing. In this day and age, hazing has been banned in many schools and groups due to serious permanent injuries and even deaths occurring. I hate to say it, but many young people these days can tend to be very cruel. What would not even have been considered back in the 50's is almost a given today in the minds of many. Young people today have seen so much violence whether through experience or TV/movies that some don't even blink an eye anymore. As far as the IE or M/s aspect, I don't know. The study that you speak of would deal with a group excepting one or more within their folds. While the one being initiated would submit to the hazing, they would not necessarily be submissive to the group, during or even once admitted as a member. IE or M/s deals more on a one on one with someone who has submissive tendencies or the need to serve if not submissive. Usually, in this instance, they would be submissive to only their owners. 333-528-841 Life shouldn't be measured by the breaths you take; but by the moments that take your breath away 18 Jan 10, 6:43 AM Malkinius US(IL), 5 yrs Greetings.... Speaking as someone who was a fraternity pledge master many years ago, and as someone who has been involved in other groups where it did take work to join them, I would say that the findings are correct. The harder it is to be accepted the more someone feels a part of the group. Also, it means the tighter the bond between those who are already members and the new person who makes it. If you have an extended group, such as a national fraternity, the Masons, the Marines or other groups with barriers to entry and advancement, people who did not see what you had to do to join will accept you as one of "them" much easier because you did make it. A side note. My fraternity never did allow hazing of its pledges. It is not hazing to tell them what you can not and will not do to them. You do get some mighty amusing reactions from them tho when you tell them what is not going to be done to them. <evil grin> They keep trying to figure out what you can and will do. Be well.... Malkinius