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	TSR : Web boards : O&P : "What do I do now?" 1 2 3 What do I do now? (29) This post is on the O&P web board. 7 Jan 10, 9:00 PM pinklucy UK, 3 yrs ravenkaldera wrote: You also mentioned that when you start out with levels of control that you prefer, rather than running to his fantasy, that he feels like it's the "vanilla him" doing it. Yes. It is. And it's the "vanilla him" who is going to have to learn how to submit, or the "vanilla him" will continue to sabotage everything. The ideal is that there is no more "vanilla him", there is only a slave . I really relate both to what the OP said about this topic and to your observations Ravenkaldera. I stumbled almost accidentally into a 24/7 D/s relationship through simple virtue of the fact that I felt an ongoing desire to submit to one particular person. Prior to that I had mostly played intense scenes. One of the hardest transitions for me was incorporating the 'vanilla' me into my submission. I had always kept them deliberately separate. Something I really struggled with was exactly what your sub is describing - I didn't always feel submissive whilst being asked/expected to submit. It felt like the real me, because it *was* the real me, but the real me was changing. We went through a deliberate process of integrating my submissive side and my vanilla side until there was only me as her submissive. Doing it 24/7 is so different to a fantasy or playing a scene. I am very similar to your sub in that I am motivated by control rather than servitude and am not a naturally submissive character. I also crave and adore those times where you really *feel* the submission in an overt and exciting way. However, it isn't maintainable for real life. If he is reduced to a sobbing wreck by having to make a simple decision it might be difficult doing the weekly shopping! Now, I fully understand how wonderful it feels to experience submission that way sometimes, but it has to become the exception rather than the norm if you are going to live your life as a submissive. It sounds to me as if he needs to adjust to the reality of day to day submission. It is felt on a milder level, but in order for it to work there needs to be an underlying feeling of satisfaction/happiness/excitement - something that feels positive. I know I used to worry that the fact I could submit whilst feeling so 'normal' meant it wasn't going to be exciting anymore. It doesn't of course, but if you are used to always associating submission with intense excitement or arousal then it can take a while to get used to how normal it can actually feel a lot of the time! Hope some of that might be helpful. 7 Jan 10, 10:44 PM Master_Teel US(TX), 4 yrs Maleficent_Smiles wrote: One question though: What do you mean by making him do things he doesn't like? I assume this is to take away his feeling of deciding what constitutes our dynamic...If he keeps doing these things without feeling, does it count? Since we had something similar set up, and he did things automatically. It was like having a butler who didn't really like his job. There are all sorts of small tasks that can be given to a slave that they're not going to be entirely happy about doing. One that my pet has to do relatively often is to pump the gas into the car. Anytime we're out together and the car needs gas, she pumps it. If it's driving rain or freezing cold, it doesn't matter. she's expected to get out (of the passenger seat, mind you), walk around the car, pump the gas, file the receipt when we get home, etc.. The hard part, is not getting uncomfortable sitting in the driver's seat while someone else pumps the gas in your car for you. This is the entitlement that Tanos makes reference to. Your slave is a resource to be utilized. Can I pump my own gas if I wanted to? Sure I can, and I do whenever I'm out without my pet. That's not the point. As Master, I have every right to command this service from my pet, and she does it without question. Master_Teel Use Google to search SD: http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=+site:se... 8 Jan 10, 6:34 AM nequam AU, 6 yrs One question, when he says he doesn't feel submissive, exactly how does he think he's supposed to feel? For me submission was never about 'feeling', it was about 'doing'. i was given a command and i respectfully responded, that was my submission. Sometimes i would feel excited by the idea of it, sometimes mortified, hell, sometimes even really pissed off, but i still did it. That's the point. i think too many people are way caught up today on how good something makes them feel and if it doesn't, then don't do it. It might be an idea to direct him to some sites and then set him a task of writing an essay on what a submissive is or does. owned property of Sir Trisk 8 Jan 10, 12:58 PM De_Luxe UK, 4 yrs Some subs are strong characters, bordering on dominant, but sensitive and perfectionists at the same time, they don't like disappointing and dislike feeling they are failing. Possibly to the point of falling apart or at least questioning if they aren't suited to being owned. To be allowed to see that happen is a mark of trust to be treasured I think. I'm wondering if the way he is wired is he genuinely desires to never disappoint you, and wishes you could wave a magic control wand to make him feel he is what he wants to be for you? Mine, as can be seen from his post earlier in this thread, struggled with high protocol because he is service-oriented not control-oriented. For him, 'High protocol' sets up an unproductive emotional maelstrom due to wiring and conflicts of interests. I suggest you can still Own a "less than submissive" sub/property and both of you be disgustingly happy if that's what you the Dominant wants and you can gain from harnessing and using that resource at your disposal. You can own either and don't have to change your prize racehorse into a cart pony. 8 Jan 10, 1:26 PM Mona_Demarkov HR, 2 yrs I started quoting some of the thoughts you put out, but ended up with so many quotes (since everyone said something that helped), that I shall just give up on that, and thank you all for your contribution so far, it is wonderful... Just some of the things that seem to repeat, and I think are the key: amatae mentioned how it is important to be able to enjoy the subtle submission, and allow the intense one to be a delicious occasional experience (which could maybe fuel the rest of the everyday submission), which shouldn't undermine the importance and satisfaction of the day to day submission, no matter how "normal" it feels. Ravenkaldera mentions attitude, and the sub's ability (and sometime necessity) to modify it, which ties in nicely with the above comment... And finally, De_Luxe points out how it is still possible to own a less than submissive sub, heh, which brought a smile to my face, thanks... Oh, and my contribution should be to help provide that intense submission feeling in him with whatever is needed to get him there...Otherwise this post might imply that it is only him that needs to adjust... I am reluctant to have him read this thread for some reason (even though it is probably just a matter of time)... Edited 8 Jan 10, 1:53 PM by Mona_Demarkov 8 Jan 10, 7:51 PM pinklucy UK, 3 yrs Maleficent_Smiles wrote: Oh, and my contribution should be to help provide that intense submission feeling in him with whatever is needed to get him there...Otherwise this post might imply that it is only him that needs to adjust... I think this is an important part of it. My previous Mistress once told me that the trick is finding out what motivates a person to feel submissive. She said some people are motivated by the act of submission itself which makes the task easy. You provide the dominance and they feel automatically fulfilled. Similarly for people who are service oriented it is simpler because having things to do provides submissive fulfillment. She said it is a little more complicated with those of us who are not necessarily driven by submission for submission's sake, but she said the principle is the same and it's a case of finding out what makes us tick. For me it was emotional masochism, punishment and control. They are like the keys to my submission. It's as if I needed a steady drip feed of them to keep my submission alive. I know at times I questioned whether that made my submission less valid somehow but my Mistress seemed to enjoy the challenge and also found it highly amusing that by working out the right method she could draw a submission out of me that was very genuine in a way that no one had ever managed before. 8 Jan 10, 7:56 PM 898-443-818 US, 5 yrs The only thing i thought i could offer that may help is this.. the most intense life has to start somewhere. As much as people out there wish we could become owned, property, used and abused overnight, it really doesn't happen that way. Someone, i think maybe Tanos, said he couldn't have this life he wants and have a full time job.... so it must go in stages. you meet, you live together, there are rules, there are more rules, he leaves work outside the home... every so often something changes to make the slavery deeper, fuller, more realized. Then one wonders do you ever really "arrive" or is the whole thing just a big ol' journey? So while i think much of what he wants is attainable, it is not attainable overnight. It will require work & consistency from both of you. And if he doesn't have the motivation to start somewhere because it is not "enough" then you can't get to where you want to go without that first step. i am curious about the feeling of the "vanilla" him doing things while he serves you. i know i am different because i am thoroughly submissive and i cannot seperate the slave from the rest of me. if serving you doesn't make him feel good/happy/different then is everything he wants really just a fantasy. Or maybe that feeling comes after the "vanilla" him is made to do it enough. i hope i did not oversimplify. he is lucky to have a Mistress who is so intelligent and wants to improve. 898-443-818 8 Jan 10, 8:51 PM nequam AU, 6 yrs Maybe he should write a fantasy on what submission would look like, not feel. That might help You get inside his head enough to start somewhere. Or You could just have him serve You in frilly pink underwear. Not sure how his vanilla side would cope with that owned property of Sir Trisk Being your slave what should I do but tend Upon the hours, and times of your desire? Sonnet 57 - William Shakespeare 9 Jan 10, 3:22 AM 888-654-361 US(NC), 5 yrs Y! I am a submissive....it is what and who i am... not learned behavior....Yet in my professional life i have ALWAYS held positions of authority....my sub side is and has only ever been reserved for my DOM....the one i am in a Deep intimate sharin relationship with....im thinkin that HE may not be a "TRUE" SUB ...not his nature...he may only like bein Dominated by females....JUST my thoughts.....All the best in the new year!!!!!!!!! DADDYS BABY GIRL 9 Jan 10, 1:06 PM subluna SE, 3 yrs What is missing in your relationship is control of the "outer life". You, as dominant, should therefore try to find a cooperative person to work together with. For example, someone at his workplace, which is in agreement with BDSM. Or just someone who you can become familiar with and make your submissive to suspect you might have information he does not know about, from someone he does'nt know. Attempt also have contact with someone in his circle of friends or relatives whom you also can interact with and learn about sensitive, but perhaps even innocent, information about him that you can use to make him insecure. Wish you luck subluna Next page