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	TSR : Web boards : O&P : "Authenticity" 1 2 3 4 Authenticity (38) This post is on the O&P web board. Thu 17 Sep 09, 5:15 PM Tanos UK, 14 yrs Y! Last week I started a thread on Informed Consent about the way "true" and "real" are used in D/s and M/s. People, especially new people, post on forums about "true dominants" or "real submissives", and explain their frustration with time-wasters, liars, guys who'll play along with D/s to get some kinky sex, etc etc. Often the person who says "true" or "real" gets jumped on, as if they're claiming there is One True Way to do D/s correctly, and therefore saying that other ways of doing D/s are invalid. Often the word "twue" / "twoo" is used. My concern is that this reaction is not only unfair, but that it also masks the underlying and very valid issue the poster is talking about: people being messed around or even hurt by misrepresentation and dishonesty about someone's D/s or M/s intentions. This is part of the wider O&P concept of Authenticity. In the Manifesto, I said this: O&P Manifesto wrote: O&P relationships strive for authenticity: that is matching the external face of things to their internal reality. Deceiving others or ourselves makes everything we do a hostage to future revelations. Embellishing our relationships or living fantasy lives masks the real issues we have to identify and overcome. That wording brings out the practical problems with deception too: of being found out later or not facing up to what needs to be done. This is something that comes up again and again where D/s and M/s are discussed. Not only with people deceived and hurt, but with bad advice and confusing role models. I'm sure many of us have read the slave who claims never to disobey, who causes others to feel they are incapable of being slaves for having lapses in their obedience, but who will admit, when pressed, that she does disobey her owner when she knows better, because that's what he would want... In my opinion, being authentic or "being the same on the outside as the inside", is an essential quality of the kinds of D/s and M/s I want to be involved in and associated with. Have you had problems with people or in relationships that, deep down, have been about lack of authenticity? Regards, Tanos www.tanos.org.uk 17 Sep 09, 5:34 PM ravenkaldera US(MA), 6 yrs When I go to meetings of D/s or M/s types, there's often someone (in the M-section) who is complaining that it's "too much work" and they need a break from mastery. When I talk to them, inevitably it comes out that they're not being authentic - they're taking the persona role that they created to be a scene dominant and attempting to extend it to 24/7 ... and of course that's exhausting, and distancing, and unsustainable. I try to get across to them that this is not about roles, at least not between the master and slave. I'm just me, all the time, and he's just him, all the time, only I happen to be in charge of him and he has to do everything I say. That shouldn't be exhausting and distancing and make you want to get away from it. If it is, you're doing it wrong! And yes, I say that bluntly - if the master ever feels like they want to just run away from the situation, they are most certainly doing it wrong, and the solution lies with them and only them. The person in charge should not feel beaten down by the dynamic. Ideally, neither should, but if either does it's still the master's job to fix it. Of course, I say that from the point of view of someone who is comfortable taking large amounts of responsibility. Seriously, lack of ability to be authentic and make the jump from roles to reality is the big glass mirror that so many folks have trouble crossing. I think part of it is that many are still hung up on it as sexy, and who they authentically are isn't sexy to them. They only feel sexy when they're in role, not when they're just George and Matilda, or Pat and Chris. Why, that would make master/slave stuff no more of a turn-on than ... taking out the garbage or changing the catbox or calling the dry-cleaner. Authenticity seems dull and drab to many people. I don't know what to do about that, except to encourage them to use a M/s dynamic to help support the M in finding a more fulfilling life path, in which the s can support them. It's a hard thing to advise on. -Raven Kaldera -If you're in charge, it's all on your head. If it's not all on your head, then you're not really in charge. 17 Sep 09, 6:29 PM MistressJeannie US(NH), 5 yrs Y! Afternoon group and Gentlemen, Thank You for this post. I've vented about My last live-in relationship on several other sites with lots of positive input, but this thread nips the problem in the bud in the first place. I recently ended a 3 1/2 year M/s relationship with someone who turned out to be a compulsive liar. I knew he had lied in his original profile about 8 months into O/our relationship. Should I have ended it there? Of course! But since I didn't I unwittingly took on every bit of responsibility for all of his deceptions. Trying to give someone, who was just roleplaying in bed, fulfillment in every day life is literally impossible. The power struggle and frustration was overwhelming. I am truly who I am all the time. This is not a game. My sense of responsibility and organizational skills combined with a compassionate, domineering nature makes Me very capable as a Domme. My imagination and creativity make Me feel sensually flirtatious in almost every setting. When My partner can't appreciate those simple virtues there's obviously something radically wrong in the relationship. My service/nurturing style left Me open to his manipulation and eventually emotional abuse and neglect while I was in chemotherapy for breast cancer this past spring. I truly believe it's both partners responsibility, equally, to be 100% transparent, all the time. Rigorously honest communication is the foundation of every healthy relationship. Thanks for the reaffirmation of that for Me. Lovingly in Dominance, Jeannie Proud Owner of My sclabh (187-649-532) 17 Sep 09, 11:00 PM 706-898-250 UK, 3 yrs Tanos wrote: In my opinion, being authentic or "being the same on the outside as the inside", is an essential quality of the kinds of D/s and M/s I want to be involved in and associated with. Have you had problems with people or in relationships that, deep down, have been about lack of authenticity? Regards, Tanos I've recently come to the realisation that I am not being authentic and this has impacted my D/s relationship. I have tried to be what I thought He wanted me to be, rather than being the real me. I will admit I had squashed several aspects of my personality over the years and am only now becoming aware of them, thats when I realised. In my case I fear the damage has been done and I have asked if He wants to end the relationship. I didn't realise I wasn't being authentic at the time, but by holding part of me back, I was. One thing is for sure, whatever the outcome, I will learn from this. 17 Sep 09, 11:59 PM 544-282-976 US(NJ), 5 yrs I am not really sure if this is the same...but reading the post brought this back to me... When I met my Master 3 years ago, He informed me He had another slave. I am poly, so that didn't matter to me and He and I were incredibly well matched, compatible and really hit it off. For a long time, I just served Him without really looking around so to speak until things just started to make themselves too obvious....I had a curfew, rules, training and journals to write. She had none. I had protocols and punishments if they were broken, she did not. I was able to ask Master why this was and He actually considered things, gave us both assignments and deadlines and after the exercise and some serious looking on His part came to the conclusion that she just wasn't a slave. She liked the bedroom fun, but not the other stuff that comes along with it. For me, its just natural, just who I am. The relationship they had fell apart as often happens when masks are removed and one can see clearly...and I truly felt bad Master had to go through that... Anyway...just my experience... His precious 18 Sep 09, 5:14 AM JSubathrt US(CA), 3 yrs Y! I'm not sure if this is a good reply here, or on the previous thread that I just finished reading where Raven told folks to be who they are...transparent! I just simply hit reply here....you can take me to task if you'd like... Dave and I have a wonderful M/s relationship that to the outside world looks totally "normal". We own and run a business together, we both do all of the household chores, (in fact he is, as I type, washing the dishes. I cooked tonight, he's cleaning. When he cooks, I clean). I buy my own clothes (with an eye to what he likes because I know what that is after almost 13 years together...and yes....I actually wear clothes every day...), take care of the household responsibilities, clean the cat boxes, take out the trash, etc, etc, etc. If he were typing this reply he would tell you that he buys his own clothes (when he thinks about it), takes care of household responsibilities, cleans the cat boxes, takes out the trash, etc, etc, etc. By any stretch of the imagination we are a pair. When we first met, we often spoke of the players we had met through our walks of life. Those who wanted to play hard in the bedroom, or look good at a BDSM party. I attended a couple of house parties shortly before I met Dave and one of the submissives who also routinely attended those parties had to spend all day Saturday "getting into the right mindset to be able to attend." That made no sense to me. What mindset does one have to "get into" to be a submissive woman? It comes "naturally to me". It's who I am. I don't wear his mark anywhere on my body, I wear his mark on my soul....in the depth of my being. I am his....Thank goodness, we were both old enough and seasoned enough to know what we wanted in a mate when we met, negotiated a contract, began a relationship and then later married. I needed a Master....He needed a slave...I don't speak in the third person. I am only submissive to Dave. Ask any contractor who trys to "take me on" when negotiating a contract who the tough one is. They have walked away giving me exactly what I want, when I want it....and shake their heads in disbelief that it happened. Who's the slave now? . It pleases Dave immensely! I love it! I have spoken more than once about the strength it takes to surrender. I have also spoken about the shear joy and freedom in that surrender. For it is in that surrender that I have found "my" peace, "my" freedom, "my" place in this world. I am being called....I look forward to reading more on this thread! Judy 18 Sep 09, 11:33 AM De_Luxe UK, 3 yrs I replied on the original Informed Consent thread (profile name Miss_Elainius)that I thought that the words Dominant or submissive need not be prefixed by any word such as real, true or genuine, my reason being that Dominant or submissive are, or should be, words for the authentic article. I have had three experiences of discovering that I had unwillingly been involved in wholly unacceptable dishonesty; two lying and cheating on existing partners and one wanting his fantasy to be played out when it suited him. I think there is some wishful thinking going on in that by pretending to be something or someone they feel they are that, at least while the role playing or scene lasts. I am not against anyone who indulges in this if they make it clear before hooking up that it is a temporary role. People can then choose to be involved or not. I think that a D/s or M/s life is still assumed by some people to be a fantasy life interrupted by reality. I believe we need to counter misconceptions and dispel role driven false expectations so that others can achieve it. We should support people to be authentic. It has to come from being it, as Tanos put it 'inside matches outside', rather than attempting to fit into an externally given and often unrealistic role. 18 Sep 09, 8:04 PM LillyMoon UK, 6 yrs I get really annoyed with the whole "twue" thing...I am what I am and my boys are how I want them to be and that is all that matters. I have been told in the past that I am not really a genuine Mistress because I am not strict enough and allow too much freedom. As I pointed out to my oh so helpful, self appointed, "mentor" the difference between them and me was that my boy and I lived it 24/7 and not just for the "scene". She didn't seem to be able to understand that the fact I was "normal" clothes and flat shoes rather than killer heels and a corset didn't detract from the authority I had over my boy. Actually she was a little offended when I asked why she needed the "props" to feel in control Personally I think that anyone who has to try all the time to prove they are not fake might just be protesting a little too much. 18 Sep 09, 9:44 PM 186-306-559 US(NC), 2 yrs I have been with a few dominants and each one was completely different from the others. In the beginning of my exploration into my submission, I was so naive. I didn't really know what WAS authentic when it came to a dom...just as I didn't really know what was considered to be a "good" submissive. During the process, I got hurt several times. Not only was I lied to, I was manipulated and misled by those who claimed to be "true Masters". I now realize that a "true" Master will have no need to manipulate, lie or mislead his submissive. A true Master is confident and knows who He is. He presents Himself as He is...warts and all. I have learned that when a dominant shows me His true self, I can be accepting or not based on the truth He presents to me. If I get into a relationship with a Master who has presented Himself in truth, I am accepting of that truth, whatever it may be. Even if the truth is not just as I wish it would be, it is always better than being lied to. 19 Sep 09, 12:33 AM 650-736-585 GR, 2 yrs Greetings to A/all. I think what the problem really is, is the fact that lots of people say they are something they're not. And, mistake fantasy as reality. I, for example, might be labelled as a slave, but I'm more of a Sub, and that, only in bed and maybe in household chores. I've never been in a real life 24/7 IE situation to ever test myself. So, although I might fantasize things like being owned and treated as a slave, I do not mistake them for reality and never promise anything like IE or TPE to any Dom/Master I meet on the net (where I live you find M/s only on the Internet). I've meet a lot of people on the Internet who said they were "Masters" and would put me in my "place", but a few chats later, they were more like: I'm married but like to f*ck men and slap them a bit 'cause that turns me on, e.t.c.... (to me they sound more like depressed sub-men who feel pressed and trapped in their marriages...) I do not know if this can be solved, or if those people are to be blamed. Lots of people, especially nowadays, build up their fantasies and end up living them in their minds as a "wanna-live/experience-reality". I'd say, that it would be nice if there were people who'd like to "play" those roles for a short period of time, just to help each other to realize/understand if M/s or D/s is something they would really like to live for long term. Even in this site, I've seen people who say they're Masters, but as Master Raven says rightly: They don't seem to take up the responsibility of their position; so they're not real Masters at all. Same for slaves. Most are doms, but seem to think they're slaves (it's okay to think something, but not okay to pass this to others as reality; I think). I don't know if the "fakes" can be blamed, but sure create a lot of problems and misunderstandings on the whole IE, M/s relations thing. I, if I may say, am here to learn a bit more about myself, by reading other people's topics and communicating via posts, hopping to find out how dom<--->slavy I really am; all in hope that by finding who I really am, will also help me to find the right person for me, with, as much as possible, less chances to fail him. But this is getting a bit long, so I better stop it here. It's a bit late where I live, so, I hope what I say makes sense. My apologies if I 'caused confusion to anyone. • I humbly ask for your tolerance and forgiveness to my ignorance. Edited 19 Sep 09, 12:41 AM by 650-736-585 19 Sep 09, 3:39 AM 346-756-859 US(NY), 2 yrs Y! I agree that a Dom does not have to be so strict. I met my Master 5 months ago and I had to adjust to the fact he was not strict. In starting out in this lifestyle I thought that was what it was all about, but I found over time that I preferred Master being a little less strict because I found it more "authentic" to reality. I always know Master is who he is and never question his authority, he doesn't need to prove it to me as much as i don't have to prove my submission, it's just there...no need to flaunt it unless that's what you want to do. It's how we feel inside that's important. Next page