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	TSR : Web boards : Internal Enslavement : "Parallel Process to IE?" 1 2 3 4 Parallel Process to IE? (36) This post is on the Internal Enslavement web board. Thu 13 Aug 09, 8:00 AM xmistressxtanyax UK, 4 yrs Hello All. Although I have been an avid reader for some time, this is my first post so usual apologies for naivety etc. etc. I and my property, 149-977-529, are pursuing IE. We are at the very beginning of the journey and it has already been quite a ride!! I often wonder whether anyone has investigated or pursued the concept of a parallel process to IE, that occurs within the M type? (if this has been discussed before, please see paragraph one) I am certainly aware of something within me, aside from and independent of a deep love of my property, especially when I am in a situation where I am unable to maintain or assert a level of control that I consider to be appropriate or acceptable( e.g. due to distance, although I have been able to do this and work hard to maintain our dynamic when we are apart). I would be very interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks M_T There is no greater responsibility than to own another, and no greater joy. 13 Aug 09, 6:58 PM EvaMaria US(CA), 3 yrs From what I've read and experienced, IE is a bonding process. I think the community in general tends to focus more on its effect/necessity/desirability regarding the submissive partner, but bonding is a thing of 2 persons. So I do think there's a parallel process that occurs in the dominant partner, but the parallel is to the submissive rather than IE as a whole. I don't think one can happen without the other. Still, I agree it would be interesting to hear of how IE is experienced by dominant partners. Good topic, M_T. Eva (The property formerly known as Camille ) 14 Aug 09, 2:34 AM Master_Odin US(KS), 3 yrs xmistressxtanyax wrote: Parallel Process to IE? I often wonder whether anyone has investigated or pursued the concept of a parallel process to IE, that occurs within the M type? (if this has been discussed before, please see paragraph one) I am certainly aware of something within me, aside from and independent of a deep love of my property, especially when I am in a situation where I am unable to maintain or assert a level of control that I consider to be appropriate or acceptable( e.g. due to distance, although I have been able to do this and work hard to maintain our dynamic when we are apart). As nebulina goes deeper and deeper into IE, I find that I have become more self-disciplined. (please forgive the pun) As my words, tone and actions become more and more her focus I make sure that what I do, say and how I do and say it clearly communicates my actual intentions. Selah There is no authority, only responsibility. 14 Aug 09, 8:11 PM masterfiremaam US(WV), 5 yrs My community sees the development of the Master/slave relationship as a spiritual growth process. As the slave surrenders in obedience to the Master, the Master does to their higher power or inner voice or whatever you want to call it. There's a lot more to it than that, but that's the nutshell version. Master Fire **The power of who we are can be intoxicating.** **The power of who we could be is humbling.** **Yet, we are assured we are exactly as we should be.** 21 Aug 09, 4:08 PM Tanos UK, 14 yrs Y! xmistressxtanyax wrote: I often wonder whether anyone has investigated or pursued the concept of a parallel process to IE, that occurs within the M type? I think feelings of responsibility grow, although I don't think that's specific to owners pursuing IE: I think it's something we naturally feel about our possessions whether they are enslaved or other types of submissive. (if this has been discussed before, please see paragraph one) Some people have expressed a desire to see the internal enslavement itself as a two-way process, with each person enslaved to the other. But really, that's some type of love. IE is inherently asymmetric, after all. Regards, Tanos www.tanos.org.uk 22 Aug 09, 4:04 AM ravenkaldera US(MA), 6 yrs Yeah. I'd have to say, after something like 6 years of working with internal enslavement ... no. No, it has not shaped me as it has shaped him. And that's kind of the point. I was in control of it; it wasn't in control of me. Certainly I have allowed myself to be more dependent on him emotionally, because I know he's not going to run away or decide to blow me off. But that was a conscious choice, made after significant assessment. It did not change *who I am*. -Raven Kaldera -If you're in charge, it's all on your head. If it's not all on your head, then you're not really in charge. 8 Dec 09, 12:32 PM PolygamistTestament US, 3 yrs ravenkaldera wrote: Yeah. I'd have to say, after something like 6 years of working with internal enslavement ... no. No, it has not shaped me as it has shaped him. And that's kind of the point. I was in control of it; it wasn't in control of me. Certainly I have allowed myself to be more dependent on him emotionally, because I know he's not going to run away or decide to blow me off. But that was a conscious choice, made after significant assessment. It did not change *who I am*. -Raven Kaldera If I were to take what you said on face value, it gives me the chills. Are you sure that you are not in denial? Because what you wrote is a lot like what some people say when they become wealthy and famous. That they never really changed, but some how they did. 8 Dec 09, 11:23 PM ravenkaldera US(MA), 6 yrs I don't know what you mean by that, really. Perhaps you misunderstood me. Internal enslavement is a process by which the master/mistress conditions the slave into having congruent wishes, values, etc. with the M, until the M's desires are so deeply ingrained that the slave cannot psychologically do otherwise. It is a process that is done *by* one person *to* the other, with their consent and their help. Let me give an example: You go to the hypnotist to stop smoking. She works on you. You have been changed, assuming it works; you no longer want to smoke. She has not been changed, except for the money you give her. Another example: You want to lose 50 lbs. at the local gym; you're not sure if you can do it alone. You hire one of the trainers to coach you for a month. He does it. At the end of the month, you are 50 lbs. lighter (and probably very proud of yourself) but it has not changed him (or his weight, or self-esteem) in any real way. Except that he has been paid. I am not changed through working on him. My life is certainly changed by having him as my slave, in that I get a lot done for me that I wouldn't otherwise have - but that would be the case whether we engaged in internal enslavement or not. The IE simply makes things easier for both of us in the long run. I hope this makes more sense to you. -Raven Kaldera -If you're in charge, it's all on your head. If it's not all on your head, then you're not really in charge. 9 Dec 09, 7:05 AM PolygamistTestament US, 3 yrs It is a pleasure conversing with someone such as yourself Raven in that I can feel assured that an intelligent response will be forth coming. This can be hard to find. The Socratic method is believed by some to be a means of purifying the soul since the process illicit falsehoods in one's belief system. The examples you cited are of impersonal relationships and what you said is generally true of impersonal relationships. It would follow from what you are saying that the relationship that you have with your slave is an impersonal one since you gave examples of impersonal relationships. Suppose your slave was an employee of yours, an example of an impersonal relationship. Suppose your employee was in an automobile accident, knock on wood, and is unable carry out his duties henceforth. Would you keep the employee on your payroll or would you fire him? Suppose the injury is permanent. 10 Dec 09, 6:45 AM ravenkaldera US(MA), 6 yrs I suppose that our relationship is an odd blend of personal and impersonal. We do love each other very much, but the in-love is not the basis for the enslavement, and indeed we try to keep it out of the way of the enslavement. We do say "I love you," but we are not, well, husbands. We are master and slave first. Joshua will sometimes do a sort of "transpersonal love" at me, the sort of devotion done in "gurubhakti" as part of the M/s. All emotions aside, the structure of our relationship is somewhere between boss/employer, guru/disciple, and liege lord/vassal. He spends most of his time working for me like the first example; he admires me like the second example; our promises to each other resemble the third example. And none of those are about personal romance. I know that our dynamic is different in many ways from the majority of people on this board, who are romantic partners first and M/s second, and probably not any of the latter three at all. As to your question about disability and firing: For a mere employee, I might. For a disciple, no - it would be a betrayal of our faith, and we have a strongly religious relationship. For a vassal, no - we have made oaths such that it would be dishonorable. So the latter two, while being impersonal - I prefer "transpersonal", myself - don't necessarily indicate the kind of lack of valuing that you implied. There are many models besides romantic pair-bonding in service. So, bringing it back to my comment that the IE changed him but not me - hopefully this gives you a better context to see the place I do it from, and he receives it from. It's not the love that makes it ethical and safe. It's the spirituality and the honor, which both derive from very transpersonal roles. -Raven Kaldera -If you're in charge, it's all on your head. If it's not all on your head, then you're not really in charge. 10 Dec 09, 7:28 AM 139-715-032 US(MA), 6 yrs ravenkaldera wrote: Yeah. I'd have to say, after something like 6 years of working with internal enslavement ... no. No, it has not shaped me as it has shaped him. And that's kind of the point. I was in control of it; it wasn't in control of me. I'll confirm that from my perspective, the process of IE hasn't significantly changed Raven. If any part of our relationship has changed him as much as it has changed me, I'd say it is the type of psychological intimacy that comes with radical honesty. The IE goes in one direction, but the radical honesty is mostly reciprocal, by his choice. I think that for him, having someone who he can have that kind of honesty with really shifted something about how he saw himself in relation to others. While I think he'd need something very close to radical honesty from the slave in order to do IE effectively, his end of it is strictly optional. (There is another submissive in his life that he could easily do IE with, and I can't imagine this kind of reciprocal radical honesty being part of their relationship.) I think that his part of the radical honesty was sort of an afterthought - since he had me here, and was doing all this work with me, he might as well use me as a tool for his self-exploration. And because he had the IE firmly in place, he could do this with me without building the unthinkably huge level of trust he'd need to do this in a non-IE relationship. -- Joshua Raven's Boy, Joshua, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Raven Kaldera. You may contact Joshua directly with any questions or comments at josh@cauldronfarm.com, or contact Raven at cauldronfarm@hotmail.com. Next page