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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "Just being human?" 1 2 3 Just being human? (26) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. 1 Jul 09, 11:06 PM tigermonkey US(MN), 2 yrs ravenkaldera wrote: It's not unusual at all for a submissive who still has a great deal of their rights to look at a slave who has given it all up and be horrified. Perhaps it's even more horrifying than it would be to an egalitarian person, because it's closer to home. The sub is already one step in that direction, and to see someone who's willingly walked six more steps toward that goal can freak them out. "Is that where this road leads? Will I be expected to go there, when I don't want to? Aaaargh!" And, as many folks do when confronted with something uncomfortable, they lash out without thinking and attempt to discredit or denigrate it. Since it's easier to demonize owners, it's often the owners who get yelled at ... which, in its own way, is insulting the slaves. Most of the full-time, all-the-way-to-the-wall properties that I know are complex, thoughtful people who have put a lot of thinking into every step of their path. It's not done mindlessly or reflexively. They are able to talk intelligently about why this is good for them, why they chose this in the first place, what needs it fulfills, what difficulties it presents and how they cope with those. When the owners get characterized as evil tyrants, the slaves by definition are reduced to mindless robots, and neither is true. -Raven Kaldera What was I lashing out at? I have no issues with submission or the more extreme ideas of it. Nor am I a submissive. If it came a across as 'lashing' out I apologize that was not the intent. Nor was demonizing any one, it was just a question, nothing more or less. 2 Jul 09, 2:49 AM EvaMaria US(CA), 3 yrs ravenkaldera wrote: If you'll check back at my post, you'll notice that I was commenting on the OP's post, not yours. I think I made that clear in the first line. Thus the commentary about decapitaized pronouns and fear of enslavement and such. I did see that part, Raven, but because I share the op's opinion I wanted to tell it could be a valid one. But I probably should have said so in my post. Eva (The property formerly known as Camille ) 2 Jul 09, 6:45 PM SirSeven 3 yrs tigermonkey wrote: I have been in a lot of BDSM forums lately, so I guess that means I have been doing lots of reading on how others treat their subs/slaves. Now I understand that that sub/slave is lower in the power level of the relationship, as is par for this kinda relationship. Now what I do not understand is what I have been terming lose of basic human rights. For example, the word I. Why is it when in those forums the sub/slave types i not I. I must have missed this class at the university. When did capitalizing or not capitalizing one's name or reference to one's self become a basic human right? I am familiar with the other human rights such as the rights to life and liberty, freedom of expression, and equality before the law; and economic, social and cultural rights. But I wasn't aware that having one refer to themselves as i vs. I, or susie vs. Susie was among these. Is it irritating when people go overboard with the slashy or other cutesy writing? Definitely. Are you deprived of your basic human rights if you choose to write, or if your owner requires you to write in a certain way? Nope. Sir Seven 2 Jul 09, 10:03 PM 688-914-375 US(MN), 2 yrs My most humble apologies to my Syr. She was not meaning actual human rights in the way it seems to have been taken, and when I was reading the post I did not think of it being taken in that manner, as I knew what she was talking about. More than anything it was in reference to S/s slashy speak as some have been calling it. It was also in reference to all the improper grammar and other such. She also is just wondering, as it has seemed to her that many find it so important to capitalize and lower case, when people are talking it is not so emphasized. I also am a bit offended that it was stated that she was lashing out when she was not. She was curious as to how other doms and subs dealt with that particular situation. It is something that has been bothering her and she just wanted to read what others would have to say. Syr's respected and loved little one. Just for my Syr, my a stor, a ghra. 28 Jul 09, 9:03 PM serendipity76 US(WI), 5 yrs Y! I've been away from these forums for more than a year and have had a lot of changes in my life and relationships since then. This thread caught my attention because I have had to examine my own feelings on the subject recently. I am not sure that there is a "loss" of basic human rights at all. Regardless of what I may give up for my relationship, I retain the basic human right to live my life as I desire, as long as I am not harming anyone in the process. My desire is to make my beloved happy and, if this means that I put his needs before my own, it does not mean that I have lost anything. I do not feel in any way diminished by the decision to submit to him. In fact, I feel that I have gained so much having been given the opportunity. As for the grammar bit, I haven't had any experience with it at all. I have never been asked to alter my way of writing, but, I can see how it is just one more way to please one's dominant. If one chooses to become a slave with these conditions, it is most likely a positive thing. ~serendipity 29 Jul 09, 12:18 AM pinklucy UK, 3 yrs ravenkaldera wrote: It's not unusual at all for a submissive who still has a great deal of their rights to look at a slave who has given it all up and be horrified. Perhaps it's even more horrifying than it would be to an egalitarian person, because it's closer to home. The sub is already one step in that direction, and to see someone who's willingly walked six more steps toward that goal can freak them out. "Is that where this road leads? Will I be expected to go there, when I don't want to? Aaaargh!" This made me smile a little. I think it certainly can feel more emotive when it's closer to home! I wouldn't say I feel horrified, but I do have a certain fascination around the way slaves live and have a desire to sort of watch (respectfully) whilst half hiding behind a cushion as it makes me a little nervous! I used to think I was a 'slave' before I came here and read more about people who live M/s lifestyles. Now I am happy to embrace the label 'submissive' and it has actually helped to give me more clarity. Despite being a submissive and not a slave I still recognise that a certain loss of self can be a positive feeling. I always feel I have moved forward in my submission when I manage to lose myself a little and focus more on my Mistress. I certainly don't lose my personality in the process. As for the grammar and writing, I don't use it personally as my Mistress and I both appreciate correct grammar. However, I do like the 'feeling' around it and it feels like D/s romance to me. I actually spell my name with a small 'l' all the time, even on official forms. It's something I chose to do myself about a decade ago as a way of feeling the importance of my submission day to day. It feels even more relevant now my D/s relationship is 24/7. It doesn't make me feel less of a person, it makes me smile to think of who I choose to be every time I write my name or see it written down. Sometimes when writing in my D/s journal I find myself randomly capitalising pronouns relating to my Mistress. It happens when I am feeling particularly in awe of her or affectionate towards her and is a simple and recognised way of showing I am really *feeling* her Dominance in that moment. (There you go, a random emotion based capitalisation just to prove my point! lol) Gifts? My Mistress loves giving me gifts and I love receiving them. No conflict of interest for us! I struggled with the fact my Mistress often doesn't like receiving gifts but have got around it by making sure I always get her gifts she really really likes which has helped a lot!