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	TSR : Web boards : M/s and D/s : "Obedience vs. Loyalty" Obedience vs. Loyalty (6) Thu 28 May 09, 9:50 PM his_slavepet US(GA), 2 yrs Y! To premise this, you will need to understand a few things. Lately, my car has been giving me trouble, so I've been having to find rides from Columbus to the mountains in NE GA (a three-hour drive). Master has done much by renting a car and we've tried bus routes and trains and GROOME, but the most reliable and expedient method has been advertising on things like Craigslist and having couples up for play or for visits and chill time. The following convo is between a male who answered one of my ads and myself. We have been chatting for a while and he wanted me to meet him at his apartment. I had suggested that he take me out this weekend, and he came back with his standard response of, "I don't go out much, why don't we just come back to my place and watch movies here?" I reiterated "Da Rules" to him: 1) No playing until meeting and being approved by Master 2) First meet and greets with me in Columbus (before trips to mountain to meet Master) are on neutral and public turf. 3) All visits and meetings and play time are approved by Master EVERY TIME (of course, because he was not aware of the nature of my relationship, I told him that these were my "boyfriend's" rules). Since he was written off in my book anyway as a strike out (he originally began as a candidate for a ride a few weeks back), I had a little fun with him: HIM: no problem I understand, damn I wish I could find some one loyal like you, you got a sister!! ME: She's 52 years old. *laughing* Wanna meet her? ME: And, I'm not loyal...I'm obedient. *smiling* HIM: HAHAH.....only if she is like you!!! obidence is good ME: Obedience is paramount. Males and females lose sight of the true nature of relationships. A male is to be obeyed. A female is to be compliant. HIM: wow where have you been all my life!!! ME: *wink* Waiting for the right male...whom I have found (or who found me, rather) HIM: how would i go about finding me a lady like you ME: www.alt.com , www.bondage.com , www.bdsm.com , www.goreanpersonals.com , www.seekdiscipline.com ME: We are everywhere...you just have to know where to look. HIM: thank you very much ME: Welcome. He was not very communicative after this convo. *smiling* But the conversation got me to thinking about the difference between loyalty and obedience. For a slave, the two might be seen as interchangeable, but really, they are not. The two words mean something entirely different, at least in my mind. Loyalty is a vanilla term. It implies a choice to follow, a desire to show fealty or allegience based on emotional connections and vanilla stereotypes. Obedience, however, is more definite. It brings to mind the military and authoritative means of expectation. While I AM loyal to Master, as any pet would be to the one she adores, I am more than that. I am first and foremost obedient. He makes the rules, I follow them. Not out of some sense of vanilla loyalty. Not because of my emotions, but in spite of them. I am obedient because it is expected, because without obedience, I am an animal without a collar. There have been times when I have not been obedient...and I have regretted it, whether it was with a huge jump in weight, or with a major depressive episode. It is important for a slave to be both loyal and obedient, but more so for her to be obedient. An obedient slave can never be disloyal, and therefore loyalty is par for the course. I want to always be an obedient slave. Its hard when I have so much fear of being held accountable. This makes it difficult for me every day when I do something I know is wrong. I wrestle with myself all the time with food choices and then, when I fuck up, I wrestle with myself to tell him what I've done. I hope that I will get better with time about the food especially and I want to simply do my best to be obedient. That way, even if I do fuck up, I'll at least know that I tried and that Master is aware of all that I do to be the best slave I can be for him. "You are indeed beautiful, worthy and capable, and you will become even more so, my dear slavepet, under my hand. We will make the trip together." - Master David Edited Thu 28 May 09, 10:39 PM by his_slavepet 31 May 09, 3:00 AM 373-468-022 US(CO), 16 mths Y! Great post, but i see loyalty in the conversation with the "potential ride". Wasn't it more loyal than obedient when you explained you had rules to follow? Yes, they were the rules but you showed loyalty by refusing to meet in the apartment. Of course you did as instructed, which is obedience. Loyalty can be defined as "feelings of allegiance." Obedience can be defined as "the act of obeying; dutiful or submissive behavior with respect to another person." After reading your post, and starting mine, i wonder if which word we use isn't a personal preference. i've always looked at it as "i am obedient when i do as instructed, i am loyal because i won't stray, disrespect, and adore Master always." Now i got myself confused. MGs "It's the submissives that show to others what type of Dom owns them." - Anonymous "If you want to kiss the sky, better learn how to kneel." Mysterious Ways- U2 31 May 09, 2:50 PM SL_precious CA, 19 mths 373-468-022 wrote: Loyalty can be defined as "feelings of allegiance." Obedience can be defined as "the act of obeying; dutiful or submissive behavior with respect to another person." After reading your post, and starting mine, i wonder if which word we use isn't a personal preference. i've always looked at it as "i am obedient when i do as instructed, i am loyal because i won't stray, disrespect, and adore Master always." Now i got myself confused. MGs not confusing at all, in fact it makes perfect sense *s* both are extremely important characteristics for a slave to posses, i see loyalty as you do...as a feeling, a bond...to be faithful to Him and our relationship. To me loyalty is more of a personality trait, like jealousy or humility… i don't know if one can learn to be loyal...you simply are or not. Obedience on the other hand is different, in the beginning it was a conscious choice...do i obey or not...the obvious choice was always to obey but there was some internal dialogue before the action. As our relationship deepened...as i became more enslaved to Him...obedience became automatic...there is no internal dialogue...i have at times paused and smiled to myself at the realization that i was doing x-y or z simply because ....ahhh... life is good *s* His loyal, obedient and loving slave SL_precious 30 Jun 09, 6:32 PM slave_of_The_Tesh US(FL), 9 mths his_slavepet wrote: A male is to be obeyed. A female is to be compliant. The feminist in my head has real issues with this statement. Neverminding her, the *realist* in my head is railing against it. It's illogical. I've been through a lot of bad relationships and one abusive one before meeting Master. If I had obeyed everything any man ever told me to do, I'd be dead, hospitalized or incarcerated by now. Common sense needs to step in here. No one, man or woman, should ever be completely blindly obeyed. Putting it in such a black-and-white manner is inviting disaster. I don't obey every single thing Master commands blindly; intelligence and common sense are there to protect me from being a danger to myself by following a directive without seeing the consequences. I trust Him not to command anything that will be seriously detrimental to any aspect of my health, but on (rare) occasion there are things that cannot be done as directed. That being said, I have to agree that loyalty and obedience mean different things to me. Loyalty, in my mind, is equal to faithfulness. I an loyal when I stand up for Master against people who would diminish His importance (namely my parents who can't see past His religious non-beliefs and one friend in particular who can't see past His bisexuality). I am loyal when I stay faithful to him (not a difficult task for me; I don't even see other men when I'm attached to someone). Obedience means just that - obeying the directive, command, or rule that has been set before me. I am obedient when I follow the rules he sets. I am obedient when I do what he tells me to do. But as I said before, I do not mindlessly obey. If something needs adjusting, it is my responsibility to make sure I talk it out with him and adjust it accordingly so no one gets hurt in a way we don't want to be hurt. Also, the two terms are not always interchangeable. They mean different things in different relationships. I am loyal to my friends and my parents; that does not mean that I am obedient to them. I love my friends and family dearly, but I cannot and will not do all of the things they tell me to do. My father wants me to leave Master because He isn't Christian. He doesn't know about the M/s part of our relationship; if he did I'm sure he would find a way to forcibly remove me from the relationship. I have absolutely no intention of leaving Master. However, if something were to happen that I felt a need to defend my father, I would do so without hesitation. Owned by The_Tesh This post has probably been edited for spelling/grammar because I'm weird like that. Edited 30 Jun 09, 6:39 PM by slave_of_The_Tesh 1 Jul 09, 1:12 AM Ou_pais US, 3 yrs slave_of_The_Tesh wrote: his_slavepet wrote: A male is to be obeyed. A female is to be compliant. The feminist in my head has real issues with this statement. Neverminding her, the *realist* in my head is railing against it. It's illogical. Ah, you got to it before i could! The problem i have with these kinds of statements is not that common sense tells us that nobody should ever be blindly obeyed; i think common sense is overrated, and a lot of what i do has nothing to do with common sense. My problem is just that they imply there is "one right way" of doing things. There are plenty of perfectly happy and fulfilled women out there who aren't compliant, and plenty of happy & fulfilled men who would be *horrified* at the thought of their (male or female) partners "obeying" them. To stay on topic, though--my my initial reaction is that loyalty is probably necessary, or close to necessary, to obedience, but not sufficient. If not loyalty to an individual, then loyalty to the cause or ideal or principal or nation that individual represents to you. But i agree that obedience goes above and beyond loyalty, and i really like the phrasing "not because of my emotions, but in spite of them." Obedience sometimes supports my rational nature when it's in danger of being overcome by my emotional nature by counterbalancing with a different emotion. It makes me look at situations by a different standard then just "what do i want in the moment?" This is something i was capable of doing for myself most of the time--but i (almost always) love knowing i'm doing it for Him, even when i hate doing it. (When i succeed!) pais 1 Jul 09, 11:03 PM SgtMajorMaam UK, 9 mths his_slavepet wrote: A male is to be obeyed. A female is to be compliant. Opps seems to be a malfunction here. Opps seems to be a malfunction here. Opps seems to be a malfunction here. LOL SgtMajorMa'am Edited 1 Jul 09, 11:04 PM by SgtMajorMaam 2 Jul 09, 1:25 AM Master_Odin US(KS), 16 mths his_slavepet wrote: A male is to be obeyed. A female is to be compliant. This is the OP's kink. And while it happens to be my kink as well, it isn't everybody's kink and that is ok too. We are all happy in our own houses and surely we can speak freely here without the disclaimers usually reserved for infomercials?? slave_of_The_Tesh wrote: No one, man or woman, should ever be completely blindly obeyed. Except of course, Me. (tongue firmly in cheek, trying to introduce a little levity….) Of course I am a god. I used to look like Adonis, 30 years later more like Bacchus…… Selah There is no authority, only responsibility.