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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "submission in reverse." 1 2 submission in reverse. (14) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. Tue 10 Mar 09, 3:15 PM 571-532-532 UK, 3 yrs hello, i am new to Ms and have always considered myself more sub than slave, but i met a Master a couple of months ago and the process of becoming his slave has been developing over this time. i call it a process because i need to understand and feel each step i take and conciously 'go there'. so each step was a concrete, concious step to submit a little further and a little deeper each time. i like this man a great deal, i can honestly say i trust him and admire him. but last weekend he made a mistake, he's only human, but it was a big one. he rang me to tell me what he had done this last sunday and my body just began to shake and my heart began to race. i just asked him if i could have time to think and i put the phone down. he has talked to me about what happened and i can understand why he did what he did, i can forgive him, i think i have. i feel like a kite at the end of a long rope. im bobbing about out of his reach while he holds the end of it. im not afraid of going back, i just cant seem to. i feel emotionless and my submission to him has gone into reverse. have any of you gone through this, is it possible to find youre way back. im confused because i know that i have no right to judge him on what he did, particularly since i can understand why he did what he did. i know that he has every right to do as he wishes but with that right has to come judgement and doing the right thing. i honestly feel emotionless at this time. he is deeply sorry and regretful and knows that it was a bad judgement call on his part. but its like ive bolted into this little place of mine and i dont feel able to climb out. it needs time i know and lots of talking - but when submission goes into reverse can it go back or is it over now. i need to ask this question because i am new to the process of enslavement and my reaction to this is completely different to anything ive experienced before. it sounds silly asking. it isnt about trust, i trust him, ive forgiven him for what he did, so it isnt that - so what is this reverse thing im doing when i know in my heart of hearts he is a good Master and made one stupid mistake and we are all allowed to do that from time to time. if i can understand a thing then i can deal with it and sort it out, i just dont understand why im reacting the way i am. thank you for ploughing through all of that. regards to you. lallyx 10 Mar 09, 4:29 PM thekittenpup 4 yrs In my opinion I think it really depends on if you are submissive specific to this M (meaning you will not sub to anyone else, it was a happenstance specific to this person) or if you are submissive in general. (Meaning if this relationship ends upon healing you will seek out another M) Now, to me it sounds as if trust was broken and that probably your feelings of reverse submission are due to that broken trust. Was what he did something that you guys had spoken about and he knew that you were uncomfortable with it? Also, now that this has happened does he know how it made you feel? Regarding will it come back, it can. It did for me after a bad experience. If he didn't know about your feelings regarding this activity, then you guys need to sit and have a long discussion about boundaries and limits. Perhaps though, it would help us if we knew what he did? If you're comfortable sharing that is. I hope this helped, not sure if it will though ~brightest blessings, Brandie~ http://onmyknees.sensualwriter.com/ 10 Mar 09, 4:33 PM 483-608-929 US(OH), 4 yrs The relationship is still very new and, for something to happen that makes you think this much this early, warning bells are going off in your head (although you may not hear them). I must admit that you were dreadfully teasing throughout the whole entry, alluding to the event that happened but not expanding on it at all. My mind was creating some very definite wild possibilities while I was reading. We are indeed all human and make mistakes, but unfortunately mistakes often have lasting effects. It will probably take time to get back to the point you were at before this happened and sadly you might not get back there at all. You had written in another entry that you wanted to be perfect for your Master (paraphrased for sure but the point I got from the reading). No one can be perfect. Another issue you might want to discuss and know the limits on are the boundaries you and He want the relationship to have. What are Y/you both expecting and wanting and hoping for. All that jazz. Maybe the whole thing is feeling too tight for Him and, as a Master, He wants boundaries to be more loose, flexible. That's just a thought, not meaning to offend. Written by it with its Owner's permission. Thank you SIR. Ultimately we know deeply that the other side of every fear is a freedom. Marilyn Ferguson Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together Edited 10 Mar 09, 4:42 PM by 483-608-929 10 Mar 09, 5:21 PM EvaMaria US(CA), 3 yrs It would be easier to comment if I knew what he's done, but I am going to assume it was a thing that showed him to not be deserving of the trust you'd placed in him. In such instances, I don't think it's a question of judging him as much as it is one of deciding what you need in a master. For me, it's a matter of standards and the idea that if I gave in an M/s context it could not be open to future negotiation or dependent on change. I know that I would never do something that would be an abuse of the trust that another had placed in me and I would not dedicate my entire being to one who would. In this case, I would likely forgive him and certainly it would not stop me from loving him but I would no longer see him as capable of owning me. That's a strong position to take, I know. But if I were to give my all knowing it was not necessarily valued the way that I do, I would not feel secure or be happy. Eva (The property formerly known as Camille ) Edited 10 Mar 09, 5:22 PM by EvaMaria 10 Mar 09, 5:41 PM 571-532-532 UK, 3 yrs hi, thanks for all you said. its not about a limit or boundaries being pushed. im sorry, im not comfortable sharing details and im aware that might sound aloof. im not and it isnt meant to be. just that i do respect this man. he has done nothing to harm me and what he did was in a moment of thoughtlessnes that he is now regretting. im sad because in every way i know that he is a good Master. he drew from me a latent ability to be his slave and i willingly went there. he made one stupid 'bad call' and im amazed at how all the good work he put in has just reversed into stalemate and no matter how hard i try, each time i attempt to swing back into him i hit a feeling of 'nothing'. i believe, in answer to the question, is he my one and only M, that he is probably the only man who will draw from me what he drew and achieved it with humour, energy, consistancy and intelligence. so yes. 10 Mar 09, 7:49 PM thekittenpup 4 yrs And not sharing is certainly your choice Perhaps then, starting from the beginning, one step at a time would be the case then. Regaining trust and re-trusting someone will take time, so you don't want to force it. I'd slowly take things from the beginning again, one step at a time and see where it goes. Since the wounds are still pretty fresh I can see how it would be difficult to just jump right back into it again. 571-532-532 wrote: hi, thanks for all you said. its not about a limit or boundaries being pushed. im sorry, im not comfortable sharing details and im aware that might sound aloof. im not and it isnt meant to be. just that i do respect this man. he has done nothing to harm me and what he did was in a moment of thoughtlessnes that he is now regretting. im sad because in every way i know that he is a good Master. he drew from me a latent ability to be his slave and i willingly went there. he made one stupid 'bad call' and im amazed at how all the good work he put in has just reversed into stalemate and no matter how hard i try, each time i attempt to swing back into him i hit a feeling of 'nothing'. i believe, in answer to the question, is he my one and only M, that he is probably the only man who will draw from me what he drew and achieved it with humour, energy, consistancy and intelligence. so yes. ~brightest blessings, brandie~ http://onmyknees.sensualwriter.com/ 10 Mar 09, 8:02 PM Paper_of_the_Pen CA, 3 yrs You know...a part of being a slave is being cared for. You feel torn, hurt... Are you being cared for? I suspect this is why you are pushing away. 10 Mar 09, 8:03 PM 520-621-669 US(NC), 4 yrs Y! I am afraid that this is going to come out wrong, but I feel that I must try anyway. Please forgive me if I just get myself tangled. Do not lose hope. I DO understand where you are and how you "feel". Although I do not know your relationship or circumstances, I am reminded very much of the situation that happened to Master and me. I also understand that you do not want to actually discuss "the incident" specifically with those outside your relationship. Although I have made references to what happened in our relationship, I have not been specific. I have journaled quite a bit about it though, privately and public. This helped me to explore and sort my feelings and WHY I felt so hurt and lost. It also helped Master to understand where my pain was coming from. He recognized and took responsibility for the breech of trust. He remained strong and close but at the same time gave me room to cry and sort out my feelings. I think the emotional process was similar to grief. I went through stages of disbelief, anger, and saddness. I felt completely lost and numb. I tried to distance myself from Master and found that I could not obey my standing orders/requirements...even simple things like sleeping naked, must sleep in a bed, and must work my dogs. I became guarded and emotionally distant and I backed off physically. For a time he could not even put his hands on me. This was worrisom for both of us. (That may go back to fear from a previous relationship...Master has NEVER laid hand on me except in play or to comfort me and he has NEVER struck me!) I stopped calling him Master for awhile. He never pushed me. I found that as much as I hurt, I could not remove his collar. I DID TRY. It is not locked but I could not do it. Master was hurting as much as me. Master did not just say he was sorry but he proved it over and over again...for months. Master finally asked if I was still his slave. I realized that I never stopped. I thought about what was truely important to me. I explored what I wanted and what was really best FOR ME. I thought about all we have been through and that he had done for me. I realized he is most important to me. Our relationship, and most of all friendship, is worth fighting for and I was determined NOT to throw that away. Both of us have put a great deal of work and time into building what we have and I am not about to give up. He really does own me! I was given the chance to leave. I could not. (Master also said that he would not give me such a chance had he not "screwed up". I needed that bit of security.) I weighed the decision with all the good that he has done for me,how much he means to me, and what i can and cannot live with/without. Obviously, I am still owned and collared by Master. Master did allow me the space and time I needed to heal. When "I" was ready I slowly began following my orders again and we began to rebuild. I was in the numb zone for a long time. It wasnt that I didnt WANT to obey, I just did not have the stregnth!!! I cried for many weeks and had terrible nightmares for months. Master was extremely supportive but was careful and slow in regaining his authority. He "listened" to me and my body/emotional state and slowly took back control and eased me back into my place. I tried to maintain an open mind and a forgiving heart. It was very hard not to be rebellious and block his attempts at repair. I did put back up the fences and walls and for a long time I was very defensive. I believe you numb out in attempt to block the pain. You become less submissive to try to prevent damage...whether it works or not. It does not hurt to take your time and slowly work your way back. Go slowly and take time to make repairs. It has been 6 months. (I have known Master for 4-5 years) It has been a long and slow process but I believe our relationship is stronger than ever. My security has actually increased. I realized that the foundation was indeed very strong. Though I thought I had lost trust and respect for my Master, I really had not. It was bruised and damaged. It IS possible to make repairs if both parties work hard and keep an open mind. You have to allow yourself to be fixed. If he means that much to you, do not give up. Search yourself for what is right and what you need. It DOES take time...maybe months or longer. Also, you can not repair the damage to your relationship alone or one sided. In the relationship with Master, I am now even closer to him. I have grown a lot over the last few months. I just wanted to give some encouragement and urge you to take your time. Healing takes time. Repairs take even longer. It can be worth it in the long run. To me, the fact that you are not willing to do something that might disrespect him, says alot. Just my opinion. hizslave "i am Master's property. i am owned by Him. my purpose is to bring my Master pleasure and do as he commands. my master protects His property and insures His slave's needs are met. my every action and thought are focused on my Master and His pleasure or desire. yes Master, thank You Master." 10 Mar 09, 8:27 PM 662-935-655 5 yrs if bells are ringing and walls are going up, it COULD be that your unconscious mind is telling you that while this is a very good, nice Man and Master, this is not the correct situation for you. i envy you that as i don't always sense when i should take a step back from situations until things get out of hand. However, it could also be what A/another has suggested- that you need to go back to the beginning and start fresh - with a clean slate. My late Master and i, when W/we were still a vanilla marriage, did that and it ended up with my collaring and the 4 1/2 wonderful years of that time before He died- the question in deciding has got to be two things. First, listen to your heart, not your head- or to your "gut" to put it another way. And also it's got to be both P/people willing to try if it's to start fresh- not just you. B/both must be 100% commited to it. If He's likely to repeat this action - although it's His right as Owner - it doesn't mean it's right for you too. you made need to beg for release and go to Someone Else that is more suitable - and go slowly either way, very VERY slowly. Trust is something that is earned - and some of us are more fragile and vulnerable than others in certain areas of our lives. And i do agree whole-heartedly that you probably need to assess who you are- if this relationship ends, would you want another Owner/Dom? Or are you only submissive with this One Person, as i was? This would seem to me to be a good time to do some journaling and get in touch with your deepest inner Soul/Self and what it has to say to you. i was once taught by a fellow counselor who was a lesbian who specialized in issues related to adult children of alcoholics that O/one could determine O/one's by looking at O/one's predominant romantic/sexual fantasies- are they with men, women or both. Later i applied this to my fantasies to discover that i was not vanilla, but submissive- at least in regards to my late Master/Husband - quite a shock i might add, at the time. And it took some time before i could accept it - and a trigger in a t.v. show of all things, that answered my final questions on the matter, within myself. Go gently on yourself too - not just Him. That's all i can say- and wish you the very best of luck! j/L Papa's owned always: still proudly wearing His Collar and Ring, rest in peace Beloved Master/Husband! alias "GRANNY" Matrika ye "OLDE" crone, bright blessing! 10 Mar 09, 9:26 PM ravenkaldera US(MA), 6 yrs Being submissive to someone puts you in a very vulnerable place. Slave, even more so. The more that you give over decision-making to someone else, the more excellent their decision-making must be. It has to be twice as good, to account for two people. Therefore, it's entirely understandable to have a fear reaction when the dominant goofs. It's understandable to panic a little (or more than a little) because you have put all your eggs in this one basket and the basket was just jostled. Of course that's scary and nerve-wracking. If you already have trust issues as a matter of course, your own sense of survival is going to have you backing up. I own a slave who has very high standards for a master's judgment (which is good, I think slaves ought to have high standards so that they don't give themselves to idiots in a flight of romantic starry-eyed love), but he is also easily frightened by my errors. And, being human, I'm going to make errors occasionally. I've watched how one minor error in judgment must be counteracted by (and will wipe out the beneficial nature of) about 20 positive decisions. That's the ratio I figure it at: 20:1. Major errors, or errors committed in particularly sensitive areas, it's about 50:1. I've come to realize that, unfair or not, that's just the way of things. Enslaving someone is about bypassing their survival nature, something that lies deep in the brain and is no easy thing to bypass. Of course it tends to bolt at the slightest thing, especially in the beginning. The only answer is for the dominant to be prepared to make up for every error by backing up and starting over with the trust-building, and resign himself to that difficult ratio. That means that every positive decision he makes for you will be a subtle feather that falls, while one single mistake will be a falling piano. So he'd better work hard on building up a huge layer of feathers, one by one, and doing his damndest to cut back on the pianos. Saying that you understand why he did it doesn't help. Your intellectual mind knows that. Your lizard-brain is screaming, and cannot be reasoned with. Enslavement takes place on the lizard-brain level, and thus it must be pacified by him - with actions, with long-term consistency. Lizard-brains take a long time to convince, and are easily jarred - if it wasn't so, we wouldn't have survived this long as a species. So he needs to understand this. Power=responsibility. We're talking about an immense amount of power here, so all errors will take on an order of magnitude that they wouldn't otherwise, and he has to take full responsibility for every one. Eventually he may be able to bomb-proof you, but only once he has your lizard-brain fully and solidly on his side. -Raven Kaldera -If you're in charge, it's all on your head. If it's not all on your head, then you're not really in charge. 10 Mar 09, 10:41 PM 571-532-532 UK, 3 yrs thank you. you have all really helped. it felt as if i was over reacting, manipulating his feelings, wallowing in melodrama - none of which i do normally - it felt wrong, alien and i couldnt understand what was going on. i had thought i would find the answer here and i was right. hizslave, youre description of how you felt through that period youve worked through describes how its been these past few days. numb - i think youre right that 'numb' protects you from the hurt youd otherwise feel. ive been really shaken by the depth or degree of withdrawal ive gone to. it seemed completely out of proportion with what Sir had done. Raven, thank you for describing it all so well. Sir lay down a lot of feathers - which is why im still tethered to him i guess, even though im out of reach as his slave right now, and it worried me that i wouldnt be able to come back because right now thats how i feel. i want to, but i cant. but now i have confidence that what im doing is natural enough and i cant tell you how much that helps. he is already putting a great deal of effort into rebuilding trust. he has told me that he isnt going away though he gave me the chance to walk - i couldnt. thank you so much everyone. xxx Edited 10 Mar 09, 10:54 PM by 571-532-532 Next page