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	TSR : Web boards : Internal Enslavement : "location vs. acceptability?" 1 2 location vs. acceptability? (13) This post is on the Internal Enslavement web board. Mon 9 Feb 09, 5:39 PM moebius_slave US(LA), 3 yrs n's thread about 'if society were different' got me thinking... and i went back and forth about making a separate thread about this because in no way did i want to hijack that one and turn it into something else. but it really is a different topic that what n had started out with. i know W/we are all in different locations and i was wondering what the general ...um...temperament of the local society was in E/everyones area is.... not so much the acceptability of M/s, D/s, BDSM, etc per se...but acceptability of anything that doesn't quite fit into the 'norm' of life. such as this lifestyle, piercings, extreme ink, hairstyles, things that are visible from the outside... i am originally from illinois (US) and it seems that there are far, far less people there that tend to be visibly 'outside the box' there are a few people with tats and almost none that i recall with any major piercings or wild colored hair, etc....much less anyone sitting at his/her Owners feet or using any certain Titles in public. the town im from was maybe 75,000 people while i was growing up and is near 200,000 people today. even when i go there to visit, i don't see much in public worth commenting on. when i was in school there were your usual classes...stoners, jocks, preppies, blah blah blah.... since moving to the south (alabama), right now i am living in a town of maybe 15-20,000 people and have met more gay, pierced, inked, wild haired, and goth people than i ever have in my entire life....and no one cares. everyone gets along with everyone here. in my career of 7 years at the call center, it was 'normal' to see everyone sharing in each others lives...true friends, laughing and hugging daily. (ya, we are a bunch of huggers around here, screw the 'workplace etiquette rules ) not just sharing, but true, honest, friendship, it was nothing to see a 20 year old heavily pierced, inked, big, scary guy getting a hug from a 65 year old woman and often too see them having lunch together. (im using them as an example, there was lots of mixes like that and never the same two people so its not like they were a 'couple', lol) now...finally, for my point, *applause*, maybe it was my own preconceived ideas and stereotyping when i shouldn't have been...BUT, i have always thought that people in the south were more, um, static. resisting change and anything that was out of the 'norm' but i would definitely be more comfortable coming 'out' here than in the place where i grew up, only because i think the general population here would handle it better. and...finally finally for my question *standing ovation*, lol wherever Y/you live...do Y/you think it would be more or less acceptable if Y/you did 'come out'? are Y/you already out? what was the reaction if any? were Y/you out before you moved there or did you suddenly go from 'fitting in' with the plain old jane people to being Y/yourself? just how out are you? anything visible from the outside? ack...so many question, good thing my pixels are unlimited so long as my keyboard and fingers don't give out! edited to add what state i am in now...um, other than a state of bliss i gave him my 'self' and He took it as a gift and added His 'Self' to it and gave it right back to me. Edited Mon 9 Feb 09, 6:20 PM by moebius_slave 9 Feb 09, 5:54 PM Andrin DE, 3 yrs While Bavaria is the Bible Belt of Europe (i.e. very conservative) Munich is an island of liberalism. The mayor of the city is patron and leads the Christopher Street parade (and is straight). You see people of all shades and colours dressed up in any way they want and their generally is no fuss about it. Munich has an extremely low crime rate (about one homicide every second decade), and so it is very easy living here. If you are the first one to walk the streets with a slave on the leash you might get some curious looks. But if you are the third people already will have accustomed to it. Andrin In order to keep a true perspective of one's importance, everyone should have a dog that will worship him and a cat that will ignore him. 9 Feb 09, 6:38 PM property_of_MacCain 4 yrs How exactly do you mean out? Its not as though other people can see IE. i'm becoming more confused by this "out" thing. i wear MacCain's collar always. Does that mean i'm out? i call him "Sir" no matter what company we are in. Does that mean i'm out? i don't run up to strangers and tell them that every aspect of my life is controlled. But i do answer questions honestly when asked.... So tell me, am i out? i'd do these things no matter where i was because it is my life. i can't hide it. That said i'm not going to call my Grandma and say "Nana i wear a collar because MacCain owns me. He is a kinky dirty man who likes to do sick things to me and i let him because he owns me." She doesn't need to know that stuff. So tell me, does that mean i'm in the M/s closet? i don't see how where i live or how many people are aware of my lifestyle has anything to do with IE. Its called internal enslavement because it is internalized. It is not a contest of who can look more slavely to the outside world. It is being controlled to your core... other people can't see that. It is not a BDSM show of floggings and gear, it is psychological. p i breathe because He allows me, indulging Him indulges me. 9 Feb 09, 7:53 PM Mistress_Tiara 5 yrs My policy on any area of being 'out' is that under normal circumstances I will not go to lengths to hide who I am. If asked directly I will answer you. Most of my friends know the various facets of my life which may cause controversy, but I do not flaunt anything unnecessarily or inappropriately and try to respect other people's comfort zones. I will however make sure my kids remain safe even if it requires an alteration to any of the above. Until a year ago I lived in Cambridge which is a very nice liberal area. There I could happily wander round with my pink/ puple/ scarlet hair, arm in arm with a girlfriend with one of my kids and a gay best friend in tow, be moderately open about my spiritual beliefs if it was relevant to the conversation, and feel quite comfortable. Similarly my boy could walk around with a heavy collar on with the padlock showing & although a few people would look it never caused us any hassle. It was a very nice place to be. I have now moved about 30 miles away and I'm in a different social world. I currently look more toned down and respectable than I ever have before but my plummy coloured hair and dress sense is considered tres rebellious. I have not yet encountered a single out gay person of either gender here. If my neighbours knew I was Pagan they'd probably want to stage a witch burning. If they found out I have female lovers they would probably faint. And if they were explicitly aware of our M/s relationship you could in some cases probably up that to a heart attack. Having said that a few of them obviously do know about our M/s in some way as my boy is tattooed in a non discreet way which if they pop into our garden they see (I do not see why he should be discreet in our own back garden). None of them have ever outright asked 'Why do you have a bloody great 'Owned' sign tattooed on your back and what's that number about?' so as it stands the issue has never been directly addressed. Some see it and do not return for another cup of tea, the rest avert their eyes (occasionally with an amused smirk). The cultural difference is tremendous for such a short geographic distance. I think one cannot underestimate how culturally different places can be, even when they are close together. As such, any statements about 'this is how people will react to X/ people do not mind X/ this is what people should do' are very flawed and exhibit a narrow range of consideration. Add into this the variable of people's individual circumstances, and the validity of prescriptive dictates or assessments on the issue of being 'out' becomes even less valid. People must all simply choose to take the route they consider most appropriate, and I don't think anyone has the right to dictate what this may be. 'If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these together ought to be able to turn it back and get it right side up again'. Sojourner Truth. 9 Feb 09, 8:01 PM 119-812-164 US, 3 yrs I posted this thread just within the last few months that intersects yours. There are 28 responses here about being 'out' which might be of use to you: http://www.seekdiscipline.com/posts/178093/0/#17... Of course there' re a few digressions that may not help at all as well. Something about worms and men .. I am not sure what your questions have to do with practical IE and since I don't participate much in those discussions, I hesitate to respond because I can't answer from that perspective. I will say that if you were in a southern academic community it would be more liberal, anywhere actually, as I've discovered, and also, small towns near. Urban centers as well. Personally, I am more out everyday and mean to live openly fully eventually. For me, to refer in a way to p's questions (if that's alright, p), the matter of being 'out' echoes much of what Andrin has commented on in his posts in terms of being out as a gay man. It has to do not with open disclosure in situations where I wouldn't otherwise disclose, but in situations where I would otherwise as a straight 'vanilla' disclose ... without feeling as though I need to qualify and edit what I disclose under those circumstances. For ex., as Andrin said in a previous post, he will not refrain from kissing a man on the street if he chooses. That is out. If my Master asked me to kneel and present myself to him when he walks in the door, and I do so whether or not I have guests in our home, that is out to me. Having lunch with friends, as I just did a few minutes ago, who know that the silver bracelets I wear are one on each wrist 24/7 not as a style choice but because they are in fact slave bracelets (same with a collar) is out to me and referring to him openly as Daddy or Master, disclosing our relationship beyond that of a simply controlling vanilla fiance or husband is out to me. I suppose we each have our own parameters. Smiles, grl {Edited to add 'worms and men' because it is a missed opportunity for humor to not do so ...} There's no dearth of kindness In this world of ours; Only in our blindness We gather thorns for flowers. --(Thomas) Gerald Massey Edited 9 Feb 09, 9:07 PM by 119-812-164 9 Feb 09, 8:08 PM Andrin DE, 3 yrs Thank you MT. I had to laugh so loud that my neighbours called and asked whether everything is ok or whether I am shouting for help! In order to keep a true perspective of one's importance, everyone should have a dog that will worship him and a cat that will ignore him. 9 Feb 09, 10:21 PM moebius_slave US(LA), 3 yrs Adrin wrote: While Bavaria is the Bible Belt of Europe (i.e. very conservative) Alabama is definitely in the bible belt in the US, i was surprised that the people up north are less accepting. property_of_MacCain wrote: How exactly do you mean out? Its not as though other people can see IE. hmmm, maybe i should have put this on a different board (or maybe gotten more sleep before posting?) i guess i was meaning more of the whole picture than just the 'internal' part. property_of_Mistress_Tiara wrote: I think one cannot underestimate how culturally different places can be, even when they are close together. even though the places i was talking about are about 13 hours apart, i was surprised how backwards i had it. 119-812-164 wrote: I posted this thread just within the last few months that intersects yours. thank you for the link, since im new here, i wasn't quite sure how old a thread has to be to be considered 'dead', but i read through it all and incidentally, loved the worm post, hehehe, quite a giggle there i gave him my 'self' and He took it as a gift and added His 'Self' to it and gave it right back to me. 10 Feb 09, 1:24 AM JRCs_petk HK, 4 yrs Y! Great offspin. Up until late last year, my Owner and I were living in Kuala Lumpur, a very reserved Muslim city. A city where simply showing my blonde hair was outrageous. Add to the mix shorts and a singlet, and I offended (and titilated!) most of the Muslim male population in KL. There was no BDSM community, or understanding of our lifestyle. Hell, they were so backward that half of them didn't even understand the ins and outs of normal sex! Adult shops did not exist, and any Muslim women caught with a sex aid was persecuted and isolated. So my question is, how can somebody be 'out' when the audience doesn't understand a thing about what you're trying to be 'out' about? To them, a collar may simply be a gothic fashion accessory. A bit weird, but nothing overtly 'out'. I think that to a large degree, some of those who are 'out' over exaggerate the reaction of the public in their own minds. As an analogy, think of an s type who is told to wear a buttplug under their clothing whilst out in public. Whilst nobody would have any idea that you're wearing a buttplug, there is a heightened sense of humiliation, and for some the fear that their 'kink' will be spotted by others. An exaggerated sense of public awareness. Would this same fear and exaggeration not creep in when exhibiting other small Ms behaviours? My Owner sees no benefit in shoving our lifestyles into other people's faces when the negative outcome outweighs the positive outcome. For example, informing either family would do more damage than good. We'd rather protect our relationship with our families than risk being cut off from them. BDSM is a part of our lives, but it is not our only life. We'd be lesser people if we closed our lives to those we loved. To a degree, I guess we believe that forcing our life onto others would be horribly selfish. We'd be doing it only for our own satisfaction, as others are unlikely to gain any benefit from the situation. As with most things in life (and this lifestyle), we are all very different people. We applaud those who can be overtly out without negatively impacting those around them. Unfortunately for us, it's not something we could do, and even if we could, I'm not sure we would. Different courses for different horses. That's why we love these forums. 10 Feb 09, 9:53 AM property_of_MacCain 4 yrs JRCs_petk wrote: So my question is, how can somebody be 'out' when the audience doesn't understand a thing about what you're trying to be 'out' about? To them, a collar may simply be a gothic fashion accessory. A bit weird, but nothing overtly 'out'. I think that to a large degree, some of those who are 'out' over exaggerate the reaction of the public in their own minds. Yes! Yes! A thousand times yes! i agree with the whole post, but this bit sums it up for me. i rarely come in contact with anyone who even vaguely thinks they know what MacCain's collar means. The first time i wore it in public i was certain everyone would notice. It has been locked on for more than a year now and very few people mention it. Most people are more curious on how it comes off, but when i say most, there have been less than ten people who have even mentioned it. It is kinda like... i am out but no-one is listening. i don't change who i am, or how i respond to MacCain... but no one pays attention. It is hardly "out" if no-one cares. p i breathe because He allows me, indulging Him indulges me. 10 Feb 09, 10:18 AM Rolling_Wildheart 6 yrs Here in Arizona, it seems the general public is more accepting of things out of the ordinary. We have a BDSM club, a few swingers clubs and nude dancing pretty much everywhere in the city. However, they don't sell alcohol at any of those places. Personally, I think that's fine. The crowds stay civil However, the powers-that-be in government are always on a crusade to shut these places down. As far as I am aware, they've only been successful in one instance (a swingers club), but they do keep trying. Sheriff Joe (if you've heard his name, you probably know how he is. Probably the most famous, or infamous, sheriff in the U.S.) and his ilk are big on "morality". I lived in Louisiana for 22 years and I would say the general public in Arizona is much more laid back as far as those things than in Louisiana, except for New Orleans. At least on the surface, Louisiana is more "bible thumping" than most areas I've been in. Wildheart Forsaken/I have come for you tonight/Awaken/Look in my eyes and take my hand/Give yourself up to me. - Dream Theater 10 Feb 09, 11:58 AM Father_Kane1 US(WA), 4 yrs Y! A thought. Be it IE or TPE, who are you living your life for? The city I live in is conservative, older and for the most part, private. There is a some what active local D/s - BDSM community but just as one can tell in any setting including here, some place a higher value on being seen and heard vs. the content of their contributation. I live by the motto - 'The most complex thought should be put in it's simplest form.' But that's just Me. Others, such as the local community thrive on the 'show & tell' aspect. That's them and that's fine by Me. I'm not out to or going to change their understanding nor are they out to change Mine. Acceptence. For the most part, society sees our life choice as a fetish or kink. Either through a lack of knowledge and understanding or more likely, incorrect knowledge. Society as a whole does not want nor are they interested in the D/s life. I accept that. Responsible people make reasonable decisions. I'm out to the degree that I balance personal wants, needs and desires with conforming to society's wants, needs and desires. I accept that compromise. The foundation that was laid by our ancestors in this life made possible our life today. If we are responsible and continue to build on that foundation, then future generations will not have to make as many compromises. I do and will live life for the value it gives Me. If I do so responsibly, then accepted or not, the value will speak for itself. Next page