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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "The Gift" 1 2 3 4 The Gift (35) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. 3 Jun 09, 2:55 AM ravenkaldera US(MA), 6 yrs pyroaquatic wrote: Does a D/O/M submit to the Universe and all of its Phenomena? Along that same token, with a slave seeing Master as God, are You a Phenomenon? I can only speak for myself, but as a strongly religious individual I certainly do submit myself to the Universe, in the way that I see that according to my own views. I am aware that this is a hierarchy, and I am not at the top of it. As I treat him, so shall I be treated. I don't require my slave to see me as a God. I'd find that faintly blasphemous and rather hubristic. I'd rather that he see me as a fallible human being who is nonetheless worthy of service. I'd worry that a slave who wanted to see me as a God would eventually be disappointed when I inevitably erred. I'm not talking about seeing the Divine within each person; that's a different thing and goes both ways. Both master and slave can see the Divine in each other. However, I most certainly am a Phenomenon. -Raven Kaldera -If you're in charge, it's all on your head. If it's not all on your head, then you're not really in charge. 4 Jun 09, 9:17 PM Sklavos_mou_Kyriah 3 yrs On a somewhat different slant, LM's gift to her slave, here is a poem I wrote at my collaring. The sting of the whip is never felt, Nor the rope's embrace, - even though Slave may ache for it. Only gentleness is Mistress' gift. To be a true slave is to be truly free Slave/Sklavos 4 Jun 09, 9:23 PM Sklavos_mou_Kyriah 3 yrs ravenkaldera wrote: pyroaquatic wrote: Does a D/O/M submit to the Universe and all of its Phenomena? Along that same token, with a slave seeing Master as God, are You a Phenomenon? I can only speak for myself, but as a strongly religious individual I certainly do submit myself to the Universe, in the way that I see that according to my own views. I am aware that this is a hierarchy, and I am not at the top of it. As I treat him, so shall I be treated. I don't require my slave to see me as a God. I'd find that faintly blasphemous and rather hubristic. I'd rather that he see me as a fallible human being who is nonetheless worthy of service. I'd worry that a slave who wanted to see me as a God would eventually be disappointed when I inevitably erred. I'm not talking about seeing the Divine within each person; that's a different thing and goes both ways. Both master and slave can see the Divine in each other. However, I most certainly am a Phenomenon. -Raven Kaldera Speaking from my own experience in this (religious) light, the mutual and deepening trust between Master/Mistress and slave helps them see divine nature manifest in each other. Yes Raven, you ARE a phenomenon, as are we all. To be a true slave is to be truly free Slave/Sklavos 28 Jul 09, 10:42 PM Kaledorus US, 5 yrs "The Gift" On your knees boy, beg for that gift. When you "submit" to or "dominate" someone in a situation where safewords are used and when limitations are negotiated, you are not actually submitting or dominating at all - you are playing at it. 30 Nov 09, 1:30 AM PolygamistTestament US, 3 yrs I became interested in this thread because it was something written by Remoses. This bargaining is certainly present, but does it represent the essence of the relationship I would say not. Can a prostitute care about all her friends? I believe that is possible. Bargaining is a matter of necessity. Yes, there is an asymmetry where the gift is ascribed to that which our humble lover has given. It is a marketing strategy, but not one grounded in a falsehood per se. Love is real even if it serves an objective concern or need. We want that love which is fleeting. It is difficult or impossible for love to be pure. It is an unrealistic expectation for it to be as pure as Jesus. If our lover can redirect to us any measure of that love that shines down upon us from Heaven invisible, we are blessed. 1 Dec 09, 1:51 AM 186-306-559 US(NC), 2 yrs An excellent topic. I do believe that my submission to Master is a gift...and I also believe His dominance is a gift to me. We give to each other, and that give and take is what the dynamic of our relationship is all about. I believe so much emphasis is stressed about the "gift of submission" because to speak of the "gift of dominance" does not seem so "Masterly"...if that makes sense. We are of the mindset that the submissive does all of the giving and the Master does all of the taking. Even though there is an element of truth in this, the "taking" is indeed a gift to the submissive. It is just not always labeled as such. 1 Dec 09, 6:29 PM Sevdah US(MN), 2 yrs ok so heres my two cents. i dont see it as a gift so much as a part of me. calling it a gift implies that i am giving that part of me away never to get it back, and i just dont feel that i am giving anything away so much as being myself. being submissive for me is not a gift, it is who i am, it is part of me, it is, if you will, a lifestyle choice. is owning any other pet or property a gift? i dont think so. i feel that i would not be whole without my master being my master. just my thoughts and my opinion please dont shoot me for sharing with respect, Sevdah. i am still new here i mean no offense to anyone. 3 Dec 09, 1:34 PM PolygamistTestament US, 3 yrs I agree with Lord_Laraby in that the gift is not something that has any real existence in the day to day world. It pertains to courtship. Those who feel it has relevance in their day to day existence are being romantic. Lord_Laraby wrote, "Can I say that the food I put into her mouth is a gift?" No, it isn't a gift; it is an expectation. 3 Dec 09, 8:59 PM Morphium UK, 2 yrs I'm not sure that 'gift' is exactly the word I would use for what I have with my girl. A gift is something that I would normally expect to give to someone with no expectation of ever being given it back, should my friendship or relationship with that person go wrong for some reason. So, in that vein.. If I was to ever become seperated from my girl in the coming years, she could expect to keep the 'gift' of my Dominance, and I her submission even though we had gone our seperate ways.. I can't really see that working out somehow.. (I am aware that I'm being a little too literal there, but it's how I see things) Never mind how time consuming and hard work it would be to continue giving and recieving those gifts to the other submissives I've had over the years.. Yikes! Instead, I normally rather think of these 'gifts' as a balance of reciprocating forces, desires and needs. I can't really operate as her Dominant and Master without her existance and she can't serve me as a submissive or slave without mine. By being with each other, and offering each other what we are, we balance and compliment each other, thereby making our small corner of the universe work somehow. Just my two cents Morph D/s is filled with similar paradox's. Such as Pain/pleasure. Enslavement/freedom. A circular and connected balance to exist between apparent opposites. ~ Master Nik 15 Dec 09, 1:38 AM 364-208-316 US(NC), 3 yrs My name is Howard I'm Joys Master and am using her account to view this site prior to giving permission for her to vent or speak in any forum... As to this subject... I believe in this world be it in the bdsm lifestyle be it in the vanilla lifestyle women for ages have used their looks, their flirtations to gain things such as attention, and we as males respond to such actions from females... With that being said I truly feel that a slave/submissive "gift" as its titled, is truly the deepest "gift" a female can give..."herself". The female gives all that she is to her counter part, in this case the dominant, Do I give her my dominance in return?...but of course I do, its the natural order of things... But unlike my dominance that comes natural, females... if there is no dominant counter part to direct her, she naturally takes the reins as it were to protect, to live, to be productive in society... Each person in the relationship or M/s will put their own personal meaning to what is the "Gift". Is the guidance and Mastery over the slave a "gift"? The slave may be the only one who can answer that for herself... Joy believes as I do that her initial "gift" when she knelt before me ....and was the ultimate gift of herself to me as her Master and her guide. owned by H.S. Next page