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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "The Gift" 1 2 3 4 The Gift (35) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board (moved from Internal Enslavement). Fri 16 Jan 09, 10:16 PM Remoses US(PA), 6 yrs I have read that some slaves regard their service as a gift to their Masters or Owners. I wonder about this. Could it not be said that the offer of Mastery or Ownership is also a gift to the slaves? Service is a wonderful thing, surely. But is it not also true that to assume the responsibility of aother person is also a gift in its own right? Owning a slave is a lot of work...it is not all about sitting o your ass while your slave is a "step and fetch it". An Owner quite literally assumes the responsibility for another person. That is not easy, I assure you...parents know this! I also wonder about this supposed "gift" of service. Is this not so different from women who use their sexuality as a bargaining tool to negotiate an agreeable position with a Man? Anyway, is that not a little dishonest or dishonorable? Is that not using sex as a bargaining chip? Is that not so different from selling sex? But look we are all culpable in these transactions, Men and women alike. All of us participate in these bargains. But still, I wonder about the "gift of service". What are your thoughts? I am Remoses. Just because it's inconvenient, doesn't mean it's not required. Quod principi placet legis habet vigorem (The pleasure of the prince has the force of law.) **Pronounce it: Ray-mosay.** 16 Jan 09, 11:37 PM Domone65 UK, 3 yrs Y! Excellent topic! As you say it is certainly a transaction of sorts. My /s has chosen to give me her submission and be owned by me , the operative word being "chosen". in making this choice i have then agreed to take total responsibility for her, i think the fundamental way it differs from any other form of relationship, is that it is mentally, emotionally, spiritually and physically all encompasing ... and of course hopefully life long. In the other cases you describe, i think they are so much more fluid and momentary and entered into without anywhere near the same level of commitment or potential longevity. When a bottom describes themselves as being taken, i interpret this as them being taken mentally, but again still with willingness, as short of kidnapping someone to chain in the basement (certainly not something i would advocate) it has to be with free will. Rick 17 Jan 09, 12:39 AM Lord_Laraby US(NY), 6 yrs Y! Remoses wrote: The Gift I have read that some slaves regard their service as a gift to their Masters or Owners. I wonder about this. Could it not be said that the offer of Mastery or Ownership is also a gift to the slaves? Hi Remoses. My personal take on the "gift of submission" thing is that it's primarily a BDSM internetism that some sites have put forth in a way to make the dominants feel more well-inclined to their subs. In other words, "don't take the submission or service for granted, because it's a gift that may be taken away at any time." I say baloney! My slave is no more giving me a continuous gift than I'm giving her one. We have found a relationship that meets most of our needs physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. It's a simbiosis of two human beings, not an exchange of gifts. She needs to be owned and mastered. I need to express my caring dominance and authority. We both get our needs met. Also, she can no more refuse to give me her submission than she could refuse to take another breath. It is who she is. I can do with her what I will and she will obey me completely and totally. Can I say that the food I put into her mouth is a gift? The sheltering warmth of my home? The guidance and teaching and correction? Nope. No gifts here, except the x-mas and birthday ones. Call me LL Edited 17 Jan 09, 12:40 AM by Lord_Laraby 17 Jan 09, 4:54 AM 276-730-264 US, 3 yrs Good evening Sir. I used to believe the whole "submission is a gift" notion that I was taught in the online bdsm world. I feel that both parts (Dominance/submission) are gifts. I also have another part of me that feels that my submission was a gift the day I first knelt for Him. However, from that point on He took ownership of the gift and made it His posession. Now while the gift of His dominance is NOT my posession, i do feel the GIFT in His dominance and ownership of me. It isn't something i would expect anyone else to identify with, but it works in my mind. Sussinctly, my submission is His. His ownership and all that it entails is a gift in my eyes. I also see the validity in not considering either to be "gifts" but more simply a working and balanced relationship. It looks to me like I don't have just one opinion. This is a nice topic to ramble on about. 19 Jan 09, 12:24 AM EvaMaria US(CA), 3 yrs I don't know why so many in the community tend to see submission as a "gift", and when speaking in a M/s context if someone uses the word, I do know what part of my relationship they're speaking of (as well as their own) although "gift" isn't the word I would choose. But I don't think it's necessarily out of a negative or deceptive motivation. C and I love one another. That's a thing of its own and exists whether we live our lives together or not. Our relationship is made possible by this love but it is a thing we negotiated. To the extent possible it's also contractual - there's no shortage of legal documentation to it. I suppose if one wanted, it could be said that we've made it possible to live our lives as an expression of our love via negotiation. Or something. Hee. I don't think it matters but I know there are some who do. It's true enough that technically, all relationships are a matter of bargain and the difference is only in how plain-spoken the participants have been. And as any method that's less than forthright is technically dishonest, a person could rightfully say the participants are as well. But the part of it is, our society has for as long as anyone can remember has perceived love and those things connected as having an ethereal quality. I don't know why - perhaps when compared to the harsh nature of most everything else in their lives it was accurate in spirit even if not in reality. So I don't like to think it's necessarily either dishonest or dishonorable but more a traditional way that's obsolete now but not yet vanished from the way we do things. And for those who will tell that they've been victimized in love through such "dishonesty" can more often than not also tell how they've been "victimized" in most other areas of their lives, too. Camille 19 Jan 09, 12:37 PM masterfiremaam US(WV), 5 yrs Here's the issue I have with the "gift" idea. While gifts are supposed to be given without strings, it's almost impossible to do so. What often happens is that there is then some expectation of return, even if that return is only the happiness of the other person, which, in turn, makes us happy. In other words, we give in order to get OUR ego boost. There are better and worse returns that we expect, the worst, in my opinion, being expecting a gift of equal or above value in return, which is a type of "purchase"; the gift is buying what you want. For example, a husband who buys his wife a new car with the expectation that, in return, she "puts out" for him. While we often do give to each other and give each other things of equal value, it's the "purchase" intent that does us in. Granted, we certainly CAN give to someone with no intent of purchase involved. To me, this is simply healthy relationship behavior and not something "special" like a gift. It should be assumed...but not unappreciated. Master Fire **The power of who we are can be intoxicating.** **The power of who we could be is humbling.** **Yet, we are assured we are exactly as we should be.** 19 Jan 09, 5:16 PM ravenkaldera US(MA), 6 yrs Joshua's submission to me is indeed a gift ... but not a gift from him. It's a gift from the Universe to me, from the Powers That Be, and therefore I must not abuse that gift or it might be taken away from me ... again, not by him, but by Them. That's how I see it. -Raven Kaldera -If you're in charge, it's all on your head. If it's not all on your head, then you're not really in charge. 19 Jan 09, 10:15 PM EvaMaria US(CA), 3 yrs ravenkaldera wrote: Joshua's submission to me is indeed a gift ... but not a gift from him. It's a gift from the Universe to me, from the Powers That Be, and therefore I must not abuse that gift or it might be taken away from me ... again, not by him, but by Them. This idea has logic for me. Camille 20 Jan 09, 8:30 PM 119-812-164 US, 3 yrs Camille wrote: ravenkaldera wrote: Joshua's submission to me is indeed a gift ... but not a gift from him. It's a gift from the Universe to me, from the Powers That Be, and therefore I must not abuse that gift or it might be taken away from me ... again, not by him, but by Them. This idea has logic for me. Camille Master Justice has discussed this notion with me on various occasions and for Him, W/we mutually give to each other in this way, and one giving (service) cannot be given or appropriately received without the other (guidance) being given and appropriately received. There is an understanding that giving precedes and makes possible the act of Ownership. He articulated in our initial contract that in offering my service as a gift to Him, i bequeath it to Him with my body and my loyalty in return for the currency of His guidance, care, and protection, and because i accept this currencey, i am consequently Owned as well as Mastered by Him. as an Owned slave, my gift of service becomes my duty as well. smiles, grl The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions.-- Alfred Lord Tennyson To live a creative life we must lose our fear of being wrong. --Joseph Chilton Pearce 20 Jan 09, 9:57 PM anjuli UK, 4 yrs It seems to me that this concept of submission as a gift is one which has gained currency in the online world. I don't think it's necessarily bad intentions altho there is this problem with resolving the expectation of return for the gift at some level even if it's unconscious. I personally was told about this at the outset when I was exploring online and learning and I've come to the conclusion that it's largely a construct to help protect new subs... to help them to value what they're offering and key them in to not settling for less than they should. But it tends not to last in my experience and in talking to others... we leave it behind at some point and see more of the depth. Just another way of looking at it that's perhaps more middle ground? anjuli *** “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” Anais Nin *** 20 Jan 09, 10:24 PM property_of_MacCain 3 yrs i don't quite grasp the "gift" thing myself. For me it wasn't so much that i gave my submission to MacCain, but more that he draws it out of me. His presence is so calm and powerful that i couldn't resist him if i tried. Maybe i am experiencing this from a different angle, because our relationship developed through years platonically prior to entering our dynamic. MacCain has stated he started to establish a foundation of I.E. prior to making me aware... maybe in retrospect i was blindsided. In any case, i couldn't be happier about the outcome, regardless of how i got here. p i breathe because He allows me, indulging Him indulges me. Next page