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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "Struggling" 1 2 3 Struggling (29) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. 11 Jan 09, 1:54 AM little_linnet US, 6 yrs I don't think you sound like a nag. You sound like you're frustrated by having a lot of your energy taken up with picking up after someone who simply leaves a trail behind him. I can't for the life of me understand why a developmentally normal adult wouldn't have the ability to put utensils back in the drawer, hang up shirts and so forth. Owner or not, it doesn't seem to me to be a terribly adult way to behave when someone refuses to do those things. (And one of the things I've noticed about Owners is that even though they have slaves to serve them, they are very adult people with a keen grasp on the requirements of adult life; they don't believe there's a Housekeeping Fairy who follows them around with her magic wand.) At the very least, requiring a submissive or slave to follow one around picking up wrappers, hanging up clothes and putting things back in the cupboard all day, sounds like a ridiculously inefficent use of their energy. And when there are children involved, OMG, what a hideous example to set. Krista The majority here come here because it is a place to exchange ideas, not to release fluids. Edited 11 Jan 09, 1:55 AM by little_linnet 11 Jan 09, 2:12 AM delight AU, 5 yrs little_linnet wrote: I don't think you sound like a nag. You sound like you're frustrated by having a lot of your energy taken up with picking up after someone who simply leaves a trail behind him. I can't for the life of me understand why a developmentally normal adult wouldn't have the ability to put utensils back in the drawer, hang up shirts and so forth. Owner or not, it doesn't seem to me to be a terribly adult way to behave when someone refuses to do those things. (And one of the things I've noticed about Owners is that even though they have slaves to serve them, they are very adult people with a keen grasp on the requirements of adult life; they don't believe there's a Housekeeping Fairy who follows them around with her magic wand.) At the very least, requiring a submissive or slave to follow one around picking up wrappers, hanging up clothes and putting things back in the cupboard all day, sounds like a ridiculously inefficent use of their energy. And when there are children involved, OMG, what a hideous example to set. Krista i happen to agree with you 100% krista. ~delight ~ owned and operated by Devero ~ 11 Jan 09, 2:40 PM Master_Odin US(KS), 3 yrs little_linnet wrote: At the very least, requiring a submissive or slave to follow one around picking up wrappers, hanging up clothes and putting things back in the cupboard all day, sounds like a ridiculously inefficent use of their energy. And when there are children involved, OMG, what a hideous example to set. Krista It may be an inefficient use of energy but I suppose it could be a good training tool and perhaps even a good idea in delight's case as this seems to be an area she has trouble surrendering. However, the children's involvement takes this out of the realm of just being an M/s issue. As a step-parenting issue this has heart ache written all over it. Not only is it a poor example to set for the children, they will almost certainly resent seeing their mother treated in a way that they and most of their friends will consider to be disrespectful. Selah. There is no authority, only responsibility. 11 Jan 09, 3:03 PM SixThreeFive SE, 5 yrs I'm just going to write this shortly, because what you said about pushing and testing struck something inside me. My Owner absolutely refuses to react when I'm pushing. He refuses to, because what I'm looking for is a reaction - of any kind. By resolutely not showing any reaction, he remains in control and it's farily obvious I am not. He never punishes, because he doesn't believe in punshiments, but if something goes on for long enough and I'm not bringing it to him, we will go through it, discuss it, debate it and analyze it. So the not reacting thing could be him remaining in control. That being said, I'm completely with Krista. Smile, it confuses people. 11 Jan 09, 9:06 PM ravenkaldera US(MA), 6 yrs Mistress_Tiara wrote: As my boy said earlier on the threaad, your issues regarding household standards etc are very similar to the dance we went through. When we moved in together it was a real culture shock for my boy. I have two children & am relaxed and functional about 'tidiness' - I like my home to be homely, happy and things to look nice and be clean but am not remotely concerned with things being pristine. My boy meanwhile has no children of his own, and aspired to show-home standards. Not only do I find this unnecessary I find it clinical and unappealling. As you can imagine, the adjustment process was a hoot. Joshua and I had a good laugh over your post, MT. We kidded that it could have been written about us, when he first came to live with me ... if you replaced "children and their toys" with "housemates and their crap". He still pines for a pristine, spartan living space. Oh well. Edited to add: For the OP: Usually when there is disagreement over such things, it's a clash of values and priorities. People's preferred levels of cleanliness are usually inherited in some way from their upbringing, and differences can become sore spots when people try to live together. If he's going to be a dominant, he's in the very difficult position of coming into a space where there is already a household (and household rules) in place, and where the household has already been functioning with a head - you. In asking him to be your 24/7 dominant, you are asking him to walk into an established system, push you out of the top slot, and take over. That's a hard call. It is highly unlikely that he will want to run that system exactly the way that you did. You may have to decide which is more important: having him as a full-time dominant instead of a part-time, heavily boundaried D/s partner - or keeping your household the way you like it, and think is appropriate for your children. This isn't about whether he will pick things up, really. It's about whether he will take over as your superior in a household that is entirely new to him, and do things your way. He might not. That had better be settled before any promises are made. (For that matter, have you guys worked out his authority over the kids? If he's in charge of you, his word technically trumps yours with the kids, unless that's negotiated otherwise! It's not like having a vanilla stepparent. I think you guys have a lot of talking to do, and maybe just more time living together to see if you're compatible values-wise.) However, on the bright side: As a parent of grown kids, I can tell you right now that if you want to give them a gift of modeling, a far, far better and more useful gift than keeping a house clean is the gift of seeing two parent role models resolve conflicts calmly, thoughtfully, and effectively. Or at least that's my particular set of values. -Raven Kaldera -If you're in charge, it's all on your head. If it's not all on your head, then you're not really in charge. Edited 11 Jan 09, 9:17 PM by ravenkaldera 12 Jan 09, 10:28 PM Domones_pussy_Kat 3 yrs Firstly this reply is from Domone65 (the One who owns me) he cant reply on his own account as he has only been signed up a few days. Firstly i see no reason for anyone to behave that way , leaving a trail of stuff as they go, for us as we don't have kids it isnt an issue of setting a good example, it is more a case of i would not expect Epink to respect me if i didnt have any respect for myself or our house... First and formost she is my submissive not a surrogate mother. Each to their own of course but i left home to join the forces at age 17 and learned the hard way to keep a limited living area tidy. I must say also i grew up in a very tidy house. As i said each to their own , but i personally couldnt live with anyone i had to beat with a stick to keep the house tidy. I understand health issues such as depression can seriously affect a persons ability to keep on top of things, it did happen to me years ago and i fell into that cycle where the more things get cluttered the harder it is to find motivation and this in turn exacerbates the effects of the depression, so if these were the circumstances i would sympathise fully and be the first in line to offer support. Sorry to go on but to sum up, in the op's case i dont believe there is a valid reason for her to put up with what i class as slovenly behaviour, especially in the presence of children and as i said i cannot see how the person concerned can command respect without showing it. Rick 14 Jan 09, 4:00 AM delight AU, 5 yrs EmpressPink wrote: Sorry to go on but to sum up, in the op's case i dont believe there is a valid reason for her to put up with what i class as slovenly behaviour, especially in the presence of children and as i said i cannot see how the person concerned can command respect without showing it. Rick Thank You Rick for so candidly pointing out something i find very dfficult to explain to him. He wants my respect, yet he can't get out of his own way at times to earn it. He doesn't ask me to clean and tidy our home, but i do it and often feel that he desn't value nor respect what i do around here, which leads to those feelings of resentment building. How am i to show respect to someone who obviously has so little concern for the things i do, or the things we own? Anyone would think that i am asking him to amputate a limb, not pick up dirty clothes, or mow the lawn. ravenkaldera wrote: If he's going to be a dominant, he's in the very difficult position of coming into a space where there is already a household (and household rules) in place, and where the household has already been functioning with a head - you. In asking him to be your 24/7 dominant, you are asking him to walk into an established system, push you out of the top slot, and take over. That's a hard call. It is highly unlikely that he will want to run that system exactly the way that you did. You may have to decide which is more important: having him as a full-time dominant instead of a part-time, heavily boundaried D/s partner - or keeping your household the way you like it, and think is appropriate for your children. -Raven Kaldera i agree that this is a huge part of our problem. Even in my first marriage i was pretty much in charge. it was me who made most of the decisions about when where and how particularly in relation to the children. it is extremely hard for me to let that person go, and i agree that that alone puts him in a very difficult position. i don't want him as a "part-time" D/s partner, but i simply can't hand over control of my life (and as a result that of my children) until i know for absolute certain that i can trust him to do that job as well if not better than i can. (Sheesh, talk about a Catch 22.. he can't show me he can if i won't allow it and i won't allow it until he shows me he's able). Strange as it may seem, picking up his stuff and taking some responsibility around the house would go a long way towards earning the respect i so need to have for him. It's kind of like this.. how can i trust him to deal with the really difficult things if he can't, or won't, take control of the small things? Please don't get me wrong, i am quite aware that this isn't just about him making the adustments, it is just as much about me. i also need to learn that this is now his home and he has every right to enjoy it as he wishes. i can't expect him to change everything about the way he used to live, if i am unwilling to change nothing. LOL.. this is the song that never ends it just goes on and on my friend... Again, i want to thank each and every O/one of Y/you for Y/your insight and wisdom. If it weren't for those of Y/you who have lived the life i would be in even more of a quandry than i am in right now. Ever grateful, ~delight ~ owned and operated by Devero ~ 14 Jan 09, 5:41 PM Mister_e_Mon US(TX), 3 yrs Y! Deveros delight, I have run a few poly homes, as well as had slaves f/t. The transition was difficult the first 3 times. What I implimented, and I have not read all the postings here, perhaps another has stated something of the like, is I set up a timer. I set it for say 6pm.When that clock hits the time it is My time. My slave would forgo all other things and become my slave immediately. The set time allowed her to get things ready for the prearranged time. It set peramiters for her, a balance really which I see that you are looking for. I would watch her as the clock ticked closer and closer to the prearranged time. I could see her stress melt. I have other ways that I used as well, but this was by far the easiest. Mister_e_Mon 14 Jan 09, 9:43 PM Domones_pussy_Kat 3 yrs Deveros_delight wrote: EmpressPink wrote: Sorry to go on but to sum up, in the op's case i dont believe there is a valid reason for her to put up with what i class as slovenly behaviour, especially in the presence of children and as i said i cannot see how the person concerned can command respect without showing it. Rick Thank You Rick for so candidly pointing out something i find very dfficult to explain to him. He wants my respect, yet he can't get out of his own way at times to earn it. He doesn't ask me to clean and tidy our home, but i do it and often feel that he desn't value nor respect what i do around here, which leads to those feelings of resentment building. How am i to show respect to someone who obviously has so little concern for the things i do, or the things we own? Anyone would think that i am asking him to amputate a limb, not pick up dirty clothes, or mow the lawn. ravenkaldera wrote: If he's going to be a dominant, he's in the very difficult position of coming into a space where there is already a household (and household rules) in place, and where the household has already been functioning with a head - you. i agree that this is a huge part of our problem. Even in my first marriage i was pretty much in charge. it was me who made most of the decisions about when where and how particularly in relation to the children. it is extremely hard for me to let that person go, and i agree that that alone puts him in a very difficult position. i don't want him as a "part-time" D/s partner, but i simply can't hand over control of my life (and as a result that of my children) until i know for absolute certain that i can trust him to do that job as well if not better than i can. (Sheesh, talk about a Catch 22.. he can't show me he can if i won't allow it and i won't allow it until he shows me he's able). Strange as it may seem, picking up his stuff and taking some responsibility around the house would go a long way towards earning the respect i so need to have for him. It's kind of like this.. how can i trust him to deal with the really difficult things if he can't, or won't, take control of the small things? Please don't get me wrong, i am quite aware that this isn't just about him making the adustments, it is just as much about me. i also need to learn that this is now his home and he has every right to enjoy it as he wishes. i can't expect him to change everything about the way he used to live, if i am unwilling to change nothing. LOL.. this is the song that never ends it just goes on and on my friend. Ever grateful, ~delight Domone65 Replying again....2 damn days left till i am free to answer under my own name! Delight, If you read the above paragraphs i think you are answering your own question... even if it isnt the answer you want. In our case we both established exactly what we needed from each other to be happy ... like you i like a tidy house and although not at the point of being ocd i am very aware of what i could live with and what would drive me mad over a period of time... yes as a dominant i could consider it a reason to punish my subbie , but that wasnt the issue, the issue was that she had the same values as a person and wanted the same lifestyle. IMO when a relationship becomes 24/7 it is no longer just M/s or D/s it is also about day to day living ... You have an established status quo you are happy with in your home and you have to ask yourself if you can live with the changes this guy will bring with him, if not, then you have to give him a non difinitive option to accept that as a must, particularly with your children in mind, or you accept it isnt going to work long term and look elsewhere. After telling him as i am sure you have, just how important these standards are to you, you need to give him the control you are still holding onto, to give him the opportunity to prove himself as being worthy of you and if it really does drive you crazy then he is definately not the one for you. Without trusting him with total control first, you will never know just how he would choose to use it. Rick