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	TSR : Web boards : Internal Enslavement : "Take in Hand...what do you think?" 1 2 3 4 5 6 Take in Hand...what do you think? (58) This post is on the Internal Enslavement web board. Sun 7 Dec 08, 3:03 AM Bella_Ragazza US(RI), 6 yrs I was doing some random research on BDSM just to see any interesting articles, and I cam across a website called "Take In Hand" At fist I thought it was a BDSM website or at least a M/s website.....I was wrong. Why do many Taken In Hand folk reject the D/s label? article wrote: "Many Taken In Hand folk like the fact that Taken In Hand is focused on the relationship rather than sex. Read any book or internet site about D/s, BDSM, M/s, etc., and you will see that it is almost all about sexual practices and making sex between people who don't know each other safer. In real life, many people in the D/s, BDSM, M/s community go to parties at which people who don't necessarily know each other engage in elaborate theatrical sexual practices. This is very far from Taken In Hand." - this quote above is one of the things that ruffled my feathers, I don't like the way they portray us as people within this lifestyle. I don't believe that the lifestyle is all about sex. I believe that it is far more then that. It's about a very deep love between two or more people, not necessary naked free for alls with whips and chins. Why do many Taken In Hand folk reject the D/s label? article wrote: "Taken In Hand is that Taken In Hand stresses that the relationship is for the benefit of both spouses, not just one of them. In the D/s and M/s communities in particular, there are all too many people taking the view that it is all about the dominant partner, and that the submissive partner must serve and sacrifice all for the dominant partner." oh this got me going, I don't think its "all about the Dom". I believe that a M/s and D/s relationship it has to do with both people. It has to do with communication and trust. Those things take two people not just the Dom. I personally as a slave get a lot of enjoyment out of serving, I wouldn't be in this lifestyle if I didn't. They make it sound like they are better then us. Why do many Taken In Hand folk reject the D/s label? article wrote: "There is so much of this in those communities that people find it refreshing that Taken In Hand stresses that the husband in a Taken In Hand relationship is not a self-serving narcissist with antisocial tendencies, but cares deeply about the happiness of his beloved wife. Likewise, in the DD community, one occasionally gets the impression that it is all about the wife and her needs and her happiness, and the husband's needs seem to get forgotten" Ummm when did Doms become self serving narcissist with antisocial tendencies? This just makes me angry. Why do many Taken In Hand folk reject the D/s label? article wrote: "Another difference some folk coming to Taken In Hand from the D/s community notice is that whereas the D/s, BDSM, M/s labels refer to an alternative lifestyle, Taken In Hand is not a lifestyle, let alone an alternative lifestyle. It is about creating a happy marriage." Ummmm....ok? and I know people in M/s D/s people are happily married, so why are they making it sound like we aren't? "BDSM is about sex, and not necessarily between people who know each other well. Taken In Hand is about longstanding marriages, not sex, and certainly not about having sex with strangers, so it would be a little odd to find sprinkled around the site material about how to keep yourself safe when having sex with strangers. If you are having sex with strangers, you are presumably not looking for a Taken In Hand relationship." Ok this guy to me knows very little about BDSM. I have never had sex with a stranger and a LOT of us are MARRIED to our significant others.....soooo No I don't think bdsm is all about sex.He keeps saying the BDSM is a sex game. Why the hell would he think that, since its a lifestyle. They also insist that they "don't like labels" like we do. they say they don't like limiting them selfs and that if they had to be put into BDSM terms that it would be TPE. The funny thing is, is that its is really isn't since the women are contently pushing back but eventually give in. Also that its strictly male dominant female submissive, though they claim to be vanilla. Though I don't think they are vanilla either I would say more like 50's household...and prude so what are your opinions on this? thanks for shareing. here is the website www.takeninhand.com Bella 7 Dec 08, 3:26 AM 373-468-022 US(WA), 3 yrs Y! i have seen this site before, a friend is very pro "Taken in Hand." i agree with many points the OP made, but i believe it is based on Christian beliefs, or how they translate M/s relations to fit in with the Bible. Or how they translate it. i am trying to not sound biased, so please don't read this that way. Every group is going to have certain beliefs, this site isn't an exception. "Take in Hand" has their own. Gorean sites have yet another. "Birds of a feather flock together" is one way to put it. We are probably here because we agree with Tanos, and the majority of people who are involved. Same with "Take in Hand". The OP doesn't agree with their philosophy, they wouldn't agree with Tanos, or wouldn't have another site probably. Although i personally don't agree 100% with the site in question, probably not even 50%, i am not saying they are wrong in what they believe. It is simply their translation. Sort of like some follow the Koran, others the Old and New Testaments. On many levels we believe in a higher power, our Masters. As do they, just in a different manner. As far as sex parties, it happens. Been to them, so i am not saying they don't. i think they exagerate, but it is their belief, it makes them happy. Respectfully, MGs slave "It's the submissives that show to others what type of Dom owns them." - Anonymous "If you want to kiss the sky, better learn how to kneel." Mysterious Ways- U2 7 Dec 08, 3:38 AM little_linnet US, 6 yrs I find it very amusing that (like a lot of M/f "domestic discipline" sites or groups) they spend a lot of time and energy assuring the reader that it's not about kink, oh no, none of that kinky stuff, we're DIFFERENT from those weirdos. No kink here. Nope. Not even behind the couch. I mean, a LOT of time and energy. Krista It's like trying to correct the math of somebody adding two and three when they're working under the notion that two means six and three means paprika. 7 Dec 08, 3:44 AM Dreamshaper US(FL), 3 yrs "Taken In Hand women tend to have take-charge personalities but want to be overpowered and taken in hand by an even more take-charge man who is fundamentally decent and kind and also treats them like a beloved princess. This can be difficult for many men to get their head around." Hehehe.....sounds like a M/s lifestyle without the collar. I have read here of many take-charge women (professional, career women) that walk through the door and strip and kneel at the feet of a more take-charge man.....as I said the only difference without reading a lot further in the website is the collar or lack thereof. Probably need to investigate further. Master Fred Am I Master because she is slave, or is she slave because I am Master? 7 Dec 08, 5:02 AM Rolling_Wildheart 6 yrs I actually, at least from My own perspective, can see the basic difference between the two after reading their FAQ section. Taken in Hand is more about "who wears the pants in this family" in a decision-making way, where as M/s, and to a lesser extent D/s, is more about controlling every aspect of the relationship. They say that there is not a focus on discipline in a Taken in Hand relationship, although they say it can be an element. To My way of thinking, discipline, in whatever form in a necessary element of M/s. Also, again it seems to Me, that the one who is not in charge (in their cases the wives) inherently has a say in decision-making, no matter how small. They seem to focus on the fact that opinions are always taken into account from both parties in a Taken in Hand relationship. I would venture to guess that in most every M/s relationship, even if the slave is allowed to give an opinion on decisions, they are not always taken into account in the final decision. Not to say they never are, but not always. And, as many "vanilla" relationships would incorrectly look at a M/s relationship as focusing on sex games, so does Taken in Hand. I actually don't see that much difference in the basic Taken in Hand relationship, as they spell it out, than a vanilla relationship. The differences would come in individual relationships including whatever various elements they want to add to it. Wildheart Your suffering will be legendary, even in Hell - Pinhead from Hellraiser II 7 Dec 08, 5:28 AM 373-468-022 US(WA), 3 yrs Y! Rolling_Wildheart wrote: Also, again it seems to Me, that the one who is not in charge (in their cases the wives) inherently has a say in decision-making, no matter how small. They seem to focus on the fact that opinions are always taken into account from both parties in a Taken in Hand relationship. I would venture to guess that in most every M/s relationship, even if the slave is allowed to give an opinion on decisions, they are not always taken into account in the final decision. Not to say they never are, but not always. Wildheart Agreed, i am often asked my opinion although it is very clear the final decision isn't mine. i know my opinion, and/or thoughts are weighed and valued, but in the grand scheme of things i won't be making many decisions. The friend of mine involved in that site is a sweet person, but she also once spent two WEEKS negogiating a relationship. i know she can get spanked as discipline, yet even that was negogiated. To me it seems more of a dictatorship (i've told her all this) than an M/s relationship. He will not touch dishes ever, nor change the baby's diapers. i am not saying Masters should, nor this is normal in the Take in Hand way of life. Considering when i looked at some of their forums, she is one of the top posters, i tend to think it is. It is an interesting site, with interesting beliefs. Perhaps they don't fit vanilla because they aren't equals. Guess they are happy, so i am happy for them. MGs slave "It's the submissives that show to others what type of Dom owns them." - Anonymous "If you want to kiss the sky, better learn how to kneel." Mysterious Ways- U2 7 Dec 08, 11:43 AM Mistress_Tiara 5 yrs Ah, these people. I agree with Krista that they seem to spend an extraordinary amount of their time pointing out that they are absolutley not, in any way at all, in the slightest little teeny weeny bit kinky thankyou very much, and are actually fine upstanding very traditional types. It must be exhausting for them. Some Domestic Discipline people relate it all back to the bible, which may account for this. If what they do makes them all happy, I think that's great. I do not however see all this stuff as somehow more meaningful and legitimate that what many couples here do. Part of the problem I think is that everyone uses terminology in different ways, and that people are afraid of being perceieved as being part of some dark pit of depravity. I would actually agree with them that the majority of BDSM going on in the world seems to not be within committed relationships and its all about the kink. But then so what? That doesn't mean that committed M/s is just about the kink and it doesn't mean their TIH stuff is either. The same applies to any assessment of Dominants being controlling, selfish etc. I'm sure you get that in some DD, M/s and BDSM, just the same as you get controlling cruel people in vanilla marriages (which is where most can be found on sheer numbers alone I would bet). It seems to me that the big strong virtuous non kinky Christian alpha male doth perhaps protest too much Please Do Not Feed The Trolls. It's the best way to get our board back on track. Edited 7 Dec 08, 11:45 AM by Mistress_Tiara 7 Dec 08, 12:03 PM SixThreeFive SE, 5 yrs Rolling_Wildheart wrote: To My way of thinking, discipline, in whatever form in a necessary element of M/s. Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I noticed the above and couldn't help to want to know more. Why do you say that? And what do you equate as discipline? I'm curious, because (enter my experience) my Owner categorically refuses to discipline or punish me, saying that I am not a child, he does not want children and will not engage in "child-raising techniques"... despite my craving to be disciplined. Other than that: Yay! You're posting! . On Topic: I read Taken In Hand back before, when IE still scared the crap out of me and I couldn't admit it was and is what I want. I remember being confused as to what was and wasn't TiH, since there seemed to be so many "TiH styles". Mostly, I was slightly put off by all the "I'm a strong woman and a feminist"-stuff, which boils down to my personal beliefs. So I read more about IE, feeling terrified when I noticed it really was what I wanted. Holy crap, that was scary. 7 Dec 08, 3:03 PM property_of_MacCain 4 yrs Its kinda funny, isn't it? There are so many takes on the same D/s type theme. One has the upperhand, in various degrees... and the other tries to please. Really TiH is a Christian take on what W/we do. Sort of. i've read up on DD and Taken in hand in the past and thought there was a lot of good stuff peppered through the material. i simply ignored the religious implications... and the implications that M/s was morally wrong...because whoever wrote the articles seemed to be referring to the mainstream "whip me beat me", not the type of M/s W/we discuss. All that said, i have used TiH verbiage to describe the relationship i share with MacCain, when explaining it to vanillas. i have said MacCain wears the pants. i have said W/we have a traditional relationship. It is easier for some people to understand... then they don't have to be corrected about all thier misconceptions on BDSM, and how my life is not just kink. Take what you can use, and leave the rest... Every relationship should be personalised anyway. p Please Do Not Feed The Trolls. It's the best way to get our board back on track. 7 Dec 08, 5:39 PM EvaMaria US(CA), 3 yrs Hello - I don't mean this unkindly, but I think you need to recognize that you (and the rest of us who view our relationships as the most precious thing we have) are a minority within a minority. I don't think you should take what they've written as personal to you. If one had to define an average outlook (particularly when taking 'net writings into account) BDSM, M/s, D/s is overwhelmingly based on sex. A person need only to Google one of these terms and count how many returns are blatantly sexual vs those that are not. Even those sites with useful information seem unwilling to avoid it. A few days ago, there was a link to one person's method of what he termed "slave speak". The page featured a clearly sexual graphic of a woman, sweating and hogtied. Major sites such as Alt.com, Collarme.com, etc, are largely sexual in nature. Consider the bulk of user IDs, avatars, etc. on most sites. Or the cover art of books on the subject. Outside of small discussion groups that tend to activate in fits and starts, there is literally no site dedicated to healthy, loving power exchange as a permanent relationship. While SD comes close, it doesn't fully qualify - it's designation is to serve those who either practice or are open to Tano's theory of IE/TPE, which excludes probably the majority of our minority. In all my time reading the 'net, I've only seen one site that would apply and it fell prey to US legal hostilities some years ago. Anyway. (Sorry to have become so "het up" on that point. ) But the same can be said for the idea of BDSM, etc being "all about the dom" or the idea of a dom as self-absorbed, lacking compassion and/or narcissistic. It's not uncommon to hear/read of a submissive going to great lenghts to tell how little she counts in the relationship - even to refusing standard capitalization. I've read more than a few descriptions where those qualities where the author doesn't name them that way but rather holds them up as proof of how masterful and virile her dominant is . I've read essays that would lead a person to believe Asperger's or ADD is a sure sign the sufferer engages in S&M and/or the practice is wholly suited to them. Well, we know it isn't correct or true and that most likely the author hasn't yet seen the big picture. Still, it's there and it's not uncommon. I think the idea that in your search for BDSM information, you found yourself on their site is an indication of why they need to stress that their focus isn't on sex. I don't think the statement that they don't use labels and the BDSM community does should be taken as having any bearing on the state of "our" marriages. We DO use lots of labels and technically, marriage isn't a necessity in M/s or D/s relationships. Bella_Ragazza wrote: Also that its strictly male dominant female submissive, though they claim to be vanilla. Though I don't think they are vanilla either I would say more like 50's household...and prude Consider this statement. It's true that the dominant/submissive component is present but that is no more an adequate description of the nature of their beliefs than it would be of ours, and we all tend to find it frustrating at being summed up that way. It's the same with the term "vanilla". It evokes and probably stems from ideas of plain and boring. I know many don't agree, but I don't like to use it anymore than I care to have myself or my relationship called kinky or perverse. And for "prude"... I honestly think you read more into it than was there. I think they did an admirable job of avoiding inferential statements and inflammatory jargon while still making the differences clear. But I don't think you're the only person to do it. Sometimes in the midst of all the unfair and negative thinking that does exist toward the lives we've chosen it's easy to feel any other viewpoint automatically carries some criticism of our own. But back to the "minority" idea. Bear in mind that the desire and ability to know what's important isn't necessarily doled out at birth - and that's a true thing no matter one's proclivities. You and those like you will always be a minority in the world which also means the bulk of what's written and offered won't be of much use. Oh. And be proud of yourself. Camille Edited 7 Dec 08, 5:47 PM by EvaMaria 7 Dec 08, 6:12 PM SixThreeFive SE, 5 yrs Camille wrote: I've read essays that would lead a person to believe Asperger's or ADD is a sure sign the sufferer engages in S&M and/or the practice is wholly suited to them. Well, we know it isn't correct or true and that most likely the author hasn't yet seen the big picture. Still, it's there and it's not uncommon. I'm confused by this part, could you please explain it to me? (As in: I don't understand what you're saying, but it sounds interesting, and where are those essays? ) Next page