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	TSR : Web boards : Other Topics : "Aesop's Conundrum." Aesop's Conundrum. (4) This post is on the Other Topics web board. Tue 2 Dec 08, 12:17 AM 163-605-552 AU, 3 yrs Given that we can't hop into a time machine and actually walk in times past this is somewhat of an esoteric question. Just for fun perhaps. Was Aesop's creativity enhanced by his slavery, or did it flourish in spite of his servitude? 5 Dec 08, 7:06 PM Mistress_Tiara 5 yrs My own guess then would be that Aesop's ability to produce fables was a useful tool to cleverly transcend some of the harshness of slavery, rather than the slavery being a creative catalyst per se. Accurate accounts of his life are sketchy and seperating the myth from the fact has proved to be difficult for most researchers. Most research agrees though that Aesop was born into slavery in the 6th C BC in what is now part of Turkey, but lived much of his life in Greece (specific locations vary). He is often portayed as having a physical deformity and many myths and writings about him also claim he had a speech impedement. He is commonly believed to have been killed by being pushed off a cliff in Delphi. As what happened in between his birth and death are rather less definate, accurately assessing his creative process is tricky. There are a few books about him including an older one called 'Aesop Without Morals' (I cant remember the author but Im sure you could look it up on Amazon if you are interested), that looks at this idea a bit. As it is often cited that he attained release from his slavery as a result of his ability to talk and think fast, delivering tales that supported whatever his case was, the relation between his slavery and his creativity again seems to indicate he cleverly used his tales as a personal tool. As no one has ever fully seperated the myth from the fact about Aesop though (some even believe he is simply a myth) then any accurate assessment is not likely. And the story of a quick talking slave winning against the odds is of course appealling! Ancient fables were not designed to be told as we now read them but instead were often used as explanatory devices to aid understanding of the world. Illness, scientific phenomena and other 'hard' subjects were often 'explained' through fables, and they were used as social tools to direct morality but also provide structure and comfort. Many of the fables regularly acredited to Aesop were most likely generated by other later people, who used the Aesop name for authenticity and credibilty, especially if there was a 'moral' message in their work they wished to circulate widely. As 'Aesop's' fables have been told, written and translated so many times no one can accurately assess what came from him originally. I personally dont think it matters in the slightest though as whether he was real or not, and whether his life was as so many recorded it after the event or not, his life and works have effectively become myth through the re-telling, which seems quite apt to me. Not bad for a slave trying to get by really There's a very interesting conversation about creativity and slavery in your question though I think. MT ~ who needs to read less of this daft stuff, prefers Perrault to Aesop anyway, & recommends the Carol Ann Duffy poem 'Mrs Aesop' should you be in the mood. Edited 5 Dec 08, 10:01 PM by Mistress_Tiara 6 Dec 08, 6:49 PM Sir4Ryco 6 yrs Hi 163-605-552, It's interesting that you would mention Aesop; if you read like I do (most of it was written before the 1500's and most of it is about variations in Mystical doctrine/ideas/processes. . . ) you are always stumbling on to esoteric references. I stumbled across a reference to Aesop in a text on Sufi Mysticism where it claimed that Aesop was a Sufi and that he was more like a jester/scop than an actual slave (that calling himself a slave was a Sufi lesson and not a physical state). It also claims that his fables are actually coded Sufi mysticism. An example would be: Aesop's fable of the mole can take on an entirely different metaphorical meaning if it is in Arabic code (for lack of a better explanation). The word mole in Arabic is Khuld which is taken from the radical/root KHLD. The root KHLD also forms these other words and meanings: KHaLaD = ever abiding, long lasting/ KHaLLaD = to perpetuate a thing/ KHaLaD = thought, mind, soul/ KHuLD = eternity, paradise, continuity Therefore if Aesop's fable of the mole is actually a Sufi fable it's meaning could be radically altered through a mystical technique I like to call mystical sound/word association. The deeper meaning of the text is understood only if the reader understands the mystical encoding that is present (i.e. having the eyes to see). If this is accomplished the text takes on a completely different moral than it would have if it was simply interpreted as just another fable viewed through a Western interpretive lense. I'm actually not certain what I believe Aesop was but I'm not convinced that he was actually a slave . . . more research required. A slave philosopher who I often go back to reading (a shocker with my personality) is Epictetus. He was a lame stoic slave who believed that everyone could master themselves for the betterment of humanity. The record of his aphorisms is called The Manual of Epictetus (it's organized a bit like the Dao de Ching). Take care. Sir4Ryco 11 Dec 08, 4:56 AM MacCain 4 yrs Hi Sir4Ryco, Is the above regarding the mole fable and Sufic thought from Idries Shah "The Sufis"? I know he does discuss it at some length. It's a facinating discussion of the fable. Shah was somewhat loose in his inclusion of many as Sufis, at least according to certain writers on the subject, but I rather enjoy that about him. Aesop certainly lived pre-Islam, but as we don't know a great deal of his origins, whether it was Anatolia or Africa, so it is possible that he may have been from a religious school that influenced Sufism. Another former slave, who became a Philosopher and playwright, was Terence. Taken into slavery in Carthage, of unknown origin, but later freed by the Scipios. Cheers, MacCain Here's to the man, and only he, can work his horse by the rule of three; by the crack of his whip or the wave of his hand he can make them go or make them stand. 12 Dec 08, 12:48 AM Sir4Ryco 6 yrs Hi MacCain, I actually grabbed the example from Idries Shah's The Sufis but it isn't the place I first ran across the reference (I was reading about Rumi and they used an Aesop fable to describe how Arabic can be used to hide something mystical). I generally regard Shah's book as a piece of tripe because of his poor scholastic work to support his claims that Sufism is the father of all faiths. I think that the Veda faith has a much better chance of being the father of faiths or perhaps a first born son. I do however like many of the tales Shah tells and some of the parables/ metaphors he uses in his explanation (I tell them to my children as stories). The other thing about Shah's book was that it led me to the following texts: Parliament of the Birds by Attar the Chemist/ Interpreter of Desires by El-Arabi/ The Story of El-Zir. They are all worth a glance if you are on the mystic trail. Take care. Sir4Ryco