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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "slaves who have profession or career outside home?" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 slaves who have profession or career outside home? (72) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. 25 Nov 08, 4:24 AM 119-812-164 US, 3 yrs property_of_MacCain wrote: 119-812-164 wrote: i am maybe hyper-sensitive to order, hierarchy, and position-- that is, in my job, even as an authority, i am submissive to everyone i encounter who is senior to me and am particularly annoyed (to say the least) by anyone 'below' me who seems to 'not know their' place(s). l When i did work outside the home, i afforded everyone (regardless of station) the same amount of respect. i got along very well with the upper management, and the janitors and everyone in between. i never felt as if anyone was below me, we all worked toward the common good, each in our own capacity. When i walked home i took time to stop and address the homeless people i passed each day. i was genuinely happy to see them making it, the best they could, in a less than hospitable environment. i missed them when i moved from the city. my life has not always been easy, and whenever someone takes the time to ask how i'm making out, i'm pleased to know there are still a few people who actually care about humanity. i have no trouble reconciling home with the outside, and now it seems more clear why. i don't feel that i'm better than anybody else, thank you for correcting my spelling error. i love web boards, blogs, and email, because i love throwing off the formality of worrying about that stuff! you sound like a very nice person who conducts herself well in the real world. i don't understand your comment in reference to mine though. it's a nice comment, but i don't ever remember intending to write something about not respecting people, not talking to homeless people (that's the jokey part), and feeling that i might be better than anyone else. the context here is 'my job'. i'm chuckling hoping that i didn't misread your comparative points or inference. let me know if i did . it was a brief statement you quoted and i guess you could deduce those things by some conjecture, but no warranted reasons in the text. my reference was, actually, to the idea of 'lines of command' in my job, specifically ... i work in academia (you might know something of that lifestyle if you're anywhere near Penn State) and we are a very liberal group of folks in the liberal arts (said smiling) and so sometimes the notion of 'authority' when it comes to a department chair, say, isn't always recognized in the way it would be in the corporate world. for example, assistant professors don't necessarily see their associate professor colleagues as mentors in the same way you might expect to see in business. it causes difficulties sometimes in running meetings and *really, really* getting things done, in my opinion. if those hierarchies were recognized more, then when the program director says, 'i've taken your perspectives into consideration and i've decided we'll do it my way' then the discussion would be over and the job gets done. as it is, academics, regardless of title, seem to function in a perpetually egalitarian construct so that we're always running in circles and no one really seems in charge ... i seek mentors in my life and job, and so when i'm working with a program director or chair or dean or someone who is in a 'higher' position than me, i prefer to listen and learn as much as possible. i feel the same way about peer learning, even learning from students and jr. colleagues. but in an 'egalitarian' type of community like the one in which i work, i see a lot of jr. faculty bolt in the door issuing 'initiatives' from the get-go instead of waiting to see what the 30 year academic veteran next across the table at the faculty meeting might think, first. of course this isn't to say that i disrespect the humanity (why do i keep thinking about bartleby the scrivener?) of an egalitarian community socially. if it weren't for such, i'd still be living in the housing projects i grew up in. my Master had his own adversities, but as 'two kids done good' we like to think we're doing at least a little to give back so a few more can climb up, too ... as you point out, it is really important to recognize humanity in people. hope that helps expand a little on a very general reference. have i understood what it is you had deduced from that text? if not, sorry. wouldn't want you thinking i didn't care about humanity, lol. sorry to chuckle so much. maybe it's my back meds... smiles, grl The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions.-- Alfred Lord Tennyson (1809 - 1892) Edited 25 Nov 08, 4:59 AM by 119-812-164 25 Nov 08, 4:33 PM property_of_MacCain 4 yrs 119-812-164 wrote: i am maybe hyper-sensitive to order, hierarchy, and position-- that is, in my job, even as an authority, i am submissive to everyone i encounter who is senior to me and am particularly annoyed (to say the least) by anyone 'below' me who seems to 'not know their' place(s). ***bold mine** 119-812-164 wrote: thank you for correcting my spelling error. i love web boards, blogs, and email, because i love throwing off the formality of worrying about that stuff! Sorry, don't know what spelling of your's i corrected. i actually corrected "hospitable", originally it read "hospital"... my spell check program didn't see it as wrong. 119-812-164 wrote: but i don't ever remember intending to write something about not respecting people, not talking to homeless people (that's the jokey part), and feeling that i might be better than anyone else. Not sure how else a person can read "am particularly annoyed (to say the least) by anyone 'below' me who seems to 'not know their' place(s)." 119-812-164 wrote: i work in academia (you might know something of that lifestyle if you're anywhere near Penn State) Although i live in close proximity to one of the Penn State campuses, my knowledge of academia is molded more by my own experiences with higher learning. i admittedly didn't attend the state school...as they didn't offer my major. 119-812-164 wrote: ...sometimes the notion of 'authority' when it comes to a department chair, say, isn't always recognized in the way it would be in the corporate world... ...in an 'egalitarian' type of community like the one in which i work, i see a lot of jr. faculty bolt in the door issuing 'initiatives' from the get-go instead of waiting to see what the 30 year academic veteran next across the table at the faculty meeting might think, first. You may be correct there. Business would come to a stand still if no one took initiatives. Seeing the world through new eyes keeps things fresh and moving forward. If the corporate world took a stodgy stance, businesses would eventually deteriorate...as not moving forward would then mean falling behind more progressive competitors. 119-812-164 wrote: of course this isn't to say that i disrespect the humanity (why do i keep thinking about bartleby the scrivener?) of an egalitarian community socially. if it weren't for such, i'd still be living in the housing projects i grew up in. my Master had his own adversities, but as 'two kids done good' we like to think we're doing at least a little to give back so a few more can climb up, too ... as you point out, it is really important to recognize humanity in people. i'm happy for you that you made it. Kudos to you for becoming well established. Goes to show you can change your stars. i am finding it a hard leap to go from "am particularly annoyed (to say the least) by anyone 'below' me who seems to 'not know their' place(s)." to "it is really important to recognize humanity in people." ....unless...you just 119-812-164 wrote: wouldn't want you thinking i didn't care about humanity, lol. Hmmmm....left wondering. 119-812-164 wrote: sorry to chuckle so much. maybe it's my back meds... smiles, grl OH! Well that explains everything! Thanks for the disclaimer. If i knew, i would have lumped it all up to you just didn't know what you were saying... Sorry for all the confusion. Hope your back is feeling better. p I breathe because He allows me to, indulging Him indulges me. 25 Nov 08, 5:05 PM 119-812-164 US, 3 yrs oh well p, all i can say is that from my perspective, there are SO many ways to read the quote you take from my post, so very very very very many, that i can't really address every possibility here. the best way to read that quote, is to simply NOT read anything into it, as you have. you've instilled so many qualities, characteristics, priorities, community, audience ... so many premises into your syllogism, that i don't understand how you've arrived at your deduction. you know, syllogism, as in logic? caius is a man men are mortal __ caius is mortal you may infer additional premeses here that might allow you to come to the deduction you did, but you'd have to infer because there is no evidence in the text itself that i mean to say anything other than what i actually say with in the context of my qualification, that is, within the context of my job -- and i explained that dynamic ad nauseum . but, if you are somehow comforted in being 'left wondering' at my ability to 'recognize humanity' because of an assertion i made about my work environment, then so be it. we do what we need to do and see what we need to see to negotiate the world around us and navigate through it. luckily, you live in a beautiful world ... i can smell the trees in Lamont, my old stomping ground, now. i am looking at my body and remembering which scars i got when i lived there, when i saw the adolescent black bear as i raced through Alan Seeger forest to meet the minister who would marry me along side of our favorite creek and not far from the oldest tree in the forest. my minister smelled like mint. she was always chewing it, fresh if she could and since it was august, there was plenty of mint to be had. these are the moments i think of when i become sad or disallusioned about my life or how it has changed, how my once beloved husband and mate is no longer so but still a beloved friend who i raise a child with and with whom i share the better part of my mortal memories. since you are 'left wondering' about my ability to 'recognize humanity' you are welcome to ask me anything you choose about me, as a person, and more than an SLRN on a board to which you can respond and walk away not knowing how your words enter my life, where i sit when i read them, whether i am privileged to have my child with me or if she has been removed for that long lonesome week when she is with her father, whether i drink coffee or tea, whether i am alone ... or if someone, somewhere is thinking about me as i look at a photo, or watch the news. anything you like, i'll answer, and perhaps stay your wondering mind. enjoy the pennsylvania fall if it has not yet turned bitter, which i remember also, so well. cheers, grl The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions.-- Alfred Lord Tennyson (1809 - 1892) Edited 25 Nov 08, 9:47 PM by 119-812-164 25 Nov 08, 7:18 PM Sir4Ryco 6 yrs Hi 119-812-164, You brought the Epimenides Paradox right to the front of my mind with your demonstration of a dialectical construct that would allow you and PofM to engage on your chosen logical ground (for all we know PofM could be Jewish and interpret the world through Jewish Midrash so your need to move the conversation into the confines of an Aristotelian logical system wouldn't be humanist). Interesting. It's a wonder our species can even socialize with so many interpretive lenses for viewing reality and explaining our interaction with it. You should ensure that you take none of the advice I have to offer. Take care. Sir4Ryco 25 Nov 08, 8:56 PM 119-812-164 US, 3 yrs Sir4Ryco wrote: Hi 119-812-164, You brought the Epimenides Paradox right to the front of my mind with your demonstration of a dialectical construct that would allow you and PofM to engage on your chosen logical ground (for all we know PofM could be Jewish and interpret the world through Jewish Midrash so your need to move the conversation into the confines of an Aristotelian logical system wouldn't be humanist). Interesting. It's a wonder our species can even socialize with so many interpretive lenses for viewing reality and explaining our interaction with it. You should ensure that you take none of the advice I have to offer. Take care. Sir4Ryco thank you Sir4Ryco for offering another qualifying exception to this dialogue. i will be sure to take none of your advice, though i am generally all ears ... smiles, grl The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions.-- Alfred Lord Tennyson (1809 - 1892) 25 Nov 08, 10:08 PM anjuli UK, 4 yrs property_of_MacCain wrote: i bow to MacCain's whim, not because He is from a better station, but because He is an extremely honorable man... deserving honor. I couldn't agree more p and I think you make your point succinctly. I rather think that I read this... 119-812-164 wrote: i am maybe hyper-sensitive to order, hierarchy, and position-- that is, in my job, even as an authority, i am submissive to everyone i encounter who is senior to me and am particularly annoyed (to say the least) by anyone 'below' me who seems to 'not know their' place(s). l ... just the way you did despite there apparently being so many many possible alternative interpretations. Girl, It did indeed come across that you do two things that many here would not. 1. Behave submissively with superiors at work. Why is that? And how does that manifest? 2. Expect juniors to behave submissively to you. Again, why? And how precisely would that look? It sounds to me as though, freudian slip or leakage as it may have been, you told us that you are somewhat sensitive of your dignity and rank at work. But, of course, intellectually you are perfectly capable of understanding that to be so is usually counterproductive. In my experience the best leaders are able to foster respect, inspire confidence and win even admiration and affection from their teams by focusing on ability and talent and skills before artificial heirarchy which may, in hidebound environments, block achievement rather than support it. For many, it's a hard lesson to learn and I've seen many going thro the painful lessons of continuous heavy-handed attempts to demand and grasp the deference of others 'below' them so creating nothing but offence and resentment and laying the foundations for their own undoing. I've always found that those who 'reach' less and manage to think first of the dignity of others in the team, before their own, actually achieve the greatest and easiest acknowledgement of their authority and right to lead. I suspect that you will again say that we are reading something into what you said that was not there or was at least unintentional. I have to say, if that is indeed the case, perhaps you should take a great deal more care in your communications. After all, if you get the wrong answer, you asked the wrong question... if you get the wrong response, perhaps you gave the wrong impression thro poor choice of words or phrasing. Good communication is firstly and largely the responsibility of the speaker/writer and you are surely capable of better clarity given your education, abilities and work experience? But if your meaning was other and we have all apparently failed to deduce it... why so shy about enlightening us simply and clearly? anjuli ps. Incidentally but interestingly, here in the UK the rarified air of the academic environment is far more rigid (some might say rabid) in its preservation of rank and dignity than any business in the private sector would be. Their kind of infighting and posturing would get you fired in most private businesses... there's business to be done and a living to make so your 'position' tends to be secondary to your ability to get the job done. Position is after all temporary and can soon change if you demonstrate potential and the ability to lead... or not - the slippery game of career snakes and ladders. Anyway, strictly a detour there. Perhaps it's different in the States? ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ Edited 25 Nov 08, 11:01 PM by anjuli 25 Nov 08, 11:40 PM EvaMaria US(CA), 3 yrs 119-812-164 wrote: i am maybe hyper-sensitive to order, hierarchy, and position-- that is, in my job, even as an authority, i am submissive to everyone i encounter who is senior to me and am particularly annoyed (to say the least) by anyone 'below' me who seems to 'not know their' place(s). It's my understanding that the use of quotation marks in the statement tells the reader the words are used figuratively and only in the sense of the situation as it's been defined. So I took your meaning to be that when co-workers act with an authority they don't have, it's annoying. That makes sense to me. I don't work anymore, but when I did I had my own business. Naturally that involved a lot of decision making on my part as well as the need to be strong and assert myself in conflicts, as architecture is a male-dominated field. I don't know how I well I would manage a necessity to flip back and forth from an assertive approach to a submissive one. I think anyone who does do it deserves admiration. Camille 26 Nov 08, 1:25 AM Damsel US, 3 yrs Well...I don't work yet but I do go to school and I'm allowed to my own money and stuff so yes I'm allowed to have an outside life. 26 Nov 08, 1:32 AM little_linnet US, 6 yrs Maybe the expression "not knowing their place" is more about jumping a command chain than acting unsubmissively to superiors? That's an alternative interpretation that I could see. Krista It's like trying to correct the math of somebody adding two and three when they're working under the notion that two means six and three means paprika. 26 Nov 08, 1:36 AM 119-812-164 US, 3 yrs anjuli wrote: But if your meaning was other and we have all apparently failed to deduce it... why so shy about enlightening us simply and clearly? anjuli anjuli, i am smiling and chuckling again as i read this ... it has been a humorous if bumpy thread. my purpose in this reply is simply to re-direct the conversation after addressing your question 'just a bit'. little_linnet wrote: Maybe the expression "not knowing their place" is more about jumping a command chain than acting unsubmissively to superiors? That's an alternative interpretation that I could see. Krista krista points out here a possible reading that can be seen as 'alternative' and i thank her for that. it makes sense. the small qualification of 'in my job' is plenty of explanation for a typical reader; but additionally, the post that i made before poc's explaining exactly what i meant referring to the scenario to which i referred in 'my job' should satisfy anyone who was somehow unclear. it will not, however, satisfy anyone whose motives for this deconstruction have nothing to do with the subject, the thread, or any semblance of civility and community. nor will is satisfy if, for some reason, they somehow 'want' the quote to mean something else for some reason i cannot imagine. i am flattered that you feel i somehow might have the power to enlighten the two of you ('all' was the word you used) 'simply'. i am fairly new to the boards but have seen enough that i can assure you humbly that enlightening you is far beyond my capacity. more smiles ... if you are not satisfied with the very thorough explanation (and i'd say simple, too, unless there are other challenges to your perception and comprehension that aren't typical and if so, apologies) i provided, i cannot say anything further. your intent is inscribed very, very clearly in your actions and response. i won't address this subject further, as it is no doubt boring for anyone coming to the board for discussion and learning as opposed to sport. my Master sent me here to dialogue and i honor him by maintaining a civil and generous spirit regardless of what i meet in others. if you'd like to address the subject of the thread, though, that would be nice. i'm sure everyone here would love to have you as part of the discussion. it seems a number of posters keep attempting to re-direct the thread despite the preoccupation with how i may or may not feel about the people with whom i work. ***** and as a contribution to that re-direction, i will add that having such a situation where you are moving from one scenario where 'lines of command' are so loose and maleable in the workplace, to a scenario where they are rigid and set, at home with one's Master, is part of the challenge of adjusting to the home life for a slave who works outside the home. i appreciate the 'methods' of centering and adjustment that many have offered (thank you especially Raven Kaldera whose ideas i have already written down to share with Daddy). i am wondering if others have other methods or other challenges that seem pertinent to the subject? smiles, grl The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions.-- Alfred Lord Tennyson (1809 - 1892) Edited 26 Nov 08, 9:53 AM by 119-812-164 Next page