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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "Service without Submission?" Service without Submission? (8) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. Sun 16 Nov 08, 9:29 PM 887-458-885 US(IL), 5 yrs I don't know whom of you remember me, but I have pretty much always had problems with my D/s relationship. Most of this, is our combined faults. However, due to recent events, we have finally discussed the real reason why he is reluctant/afraid to dominate me. It is a personal matter, so I will not divulge it here; but it is something that needs to be worked through with a counselor (which he does not have access to at the moment - insurance issues) who is trained in that area and I believe it is made worse by his bipolar disorder, though that is finally being treated properly with medicine. In my own perspective and mind, I am a submissive/pet. I have always been a submissive. I believe that I will always be a submissive. However, because of said problems, neither I nor my dominant-type feel that his is in the proper state of mind to be my master at the current time; though we have both expressed great want for a D/s relationship in the future. My question is, should I refrain from acting in a submissive manner around him? Though at the moment, I am not in service, I find myself doing things that I know that are completely for his benefit and to improve my skills for when I am his slave. I have taken up the piano, with my main intention being to be able to play and entertain guests when he has them over for tea. (I am also learning the proper way to serve tea for this reason) Is it wrong that I continue to act and think this way? Should I be attempting to move on and banish these thoughts before I become submissive to someone who cannot master me? I am just very confused at the moment and would appreciate any advice that anyone can give. Thank you. -Pet 16 Nov 08, 10:46 PM 662-935-655 5 yrs i don't think it's wrong to do something i believe some or all of us are "hardwired" in the brain to be. just a thought j/L Papa's owned always: still proudly wearing His Collar and Ring, rest in peace Beloved Master/Husband! "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose" Janis Joplin 16 Nov 08, 11:55 PM stupidstupidgirl 3 yrs I agree that we are 'hardwired' to be submissives and/or slaves. Which basically means, even without an Owner or Master, I am still who I am. Just because I am a slave to my Owner, in no way means that just because I have a submissive attitude in regards to more dominant people, that I am their slave or submissive. Do you see the difference? We cannot help who we are, but that doesn't mean we submit to just anyone because they have a dominant personality. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to improve yourself. I think we should all try to improve ourselves. Let's say things don't work out with your Dom .. would you be any less for having learned the piano or how to serve tea properly? Absolutely not, if anything you would have 2 great talents to show off to a new Dom. As far as not acting submissive around him .. if something were to happen to my Daddy and because of mental instability he was unable to properly dominate me .. would I then suddenly stop being submissive towards or in front of him? No, absolutely not, but I might have to step up to the plate and make decisions that I would not normally have to make. I might have to take on a more dominant role than I am used to, but I would still be a slave/submissive. Sometimes when you decide it is no longer worth the pain of the search, you find what it was you were looking for in the first place. I am completely owned and loved. Edited 16 Nov 08, 11:58 PM by stupidstupidgirl 17 Nov 08, 12:00 AM masterfiremaam US(WV), 5 yrs Would not being submissive be denying who you are inside? Would you feel cheated, unfulfilled and unhappy? If so, don't do it. Be who you are authentically...that's the only true path to happiness. Master Fire **The power of who we are can be intoxicating.** **The power of who we could be is humbling.** **Yet, we are assured we are exactly as we should be.** 17 Nov 08, 12:33 AM Master_Odin US(KS), 3 yrs 887-458-885 wrote: Service without Submission? <snip> My question is, should I refrain from acting in a submissive manner around him? <snip> I am just very confused at the moment and would appreciate any advice that anyone can give. Thank you. -Pet I spent 15 of 20 years of a relationship with a Bi-polar partner. It is a very insidious disease that sometimes can be controlled and even relatively benign. It can also be fatal despite the best of care. Whether to stay or move on can not be advised from this distance. There are no clearly right or clearly wrong answers. You need to find a local support group, counseling or a trusted third party to help you sort through the possibilities and make the best decision you can with the information available. Selah There is no authority, only responsibility. 18 Nov 08, 2:16 AM Ou_pais US, 5 yrs 887-458-885 wrote: In my own perspective and mind, I am a submissive/pet. I have always been a submissive. I believe that I will always be a submissive. However, because of said problems, neither I nor my dominant-type feel that his is in the proper state of mind to be my master at the current time; though we have both expressed great want for a D/s relationship in the future. My question is, should I refrain from acting in a submissive manner around him? This sounds like a very difficult situation for you, but it's not clear to me why you are asking this question. Are you looking for other people to tell you what to do while he can't? But, since you're asking, i'll tell you a little about my past, and you can decide whether and how much of it might apply to you. When i was in a nominal D/s relationship with a guy (who happened to be bipolar also, but i don't think that's necessarily relevant) who claimed that he wanted to own me but wouldn't actually do anything about it, at first i did try to continue to be submissive. First i would ask him what he would like me to do until he would come up with something i think just to shut me up, and then i would do it for a while. Then i would start feeling that he wasn't paying any attention to what i was doing, so i would stop doing it to test this theory and to see if i could provoke him to stepping it up (yes, i was very bad). It never worked, he never noticed, and i just started getting resentful. Now, obviously this doesn't wholly apply to you, as he is being completely open about not being in a place to be your master right now. What i wonder is how long you'll be willing to wait while he works through his issues. Not knowing what the problem is, i can't guess how long it would take, but i'd guess at least six months to a year, with no guarantee that he'll still feel the same drive towards being a master when he's done. (Again, i don't know him, so maybe you feel that it's certain. What i discovered was most of my ex's drive to being an owner was fueled by abandonment & rejection issues mixed with a liking for kinky sex, so he got bored very quickly once he thought i was "caught".) Though at the moment, I am not in service, I find myself doing things that I know that are completely for his benefit and to improve my skills for when I am his slave. I have taken up the piano, with my main intention being to be able to play and entertain guests when he has them over for tea. (I am also learning the proper way to serve tea for this reason) Are you enjoying what you're doing? Does it feel like you're getting something out of it, or is it something you're going to resent having wasted time on if he's never going to appreciate it? Because it's not clear to me whether he would want you to be doing these things even if he were in a more "masterly" place. Obviously not every s-type is like me, ever greedy for positive reinforcement and overt displays of control, so if you're happier than i was, i'm happy for you! And, as i said, there is at least one significant difference in our situations, in that he's trying to get help for his problems. And good for him for doing that, because it's not easy! Good luck to both of you. pais 18 Nov 08, 2:42 PM EvaMaria US(CA), 3 yrs 887-458-885 wrote: Service without Submission? My question is, should I refrain from acting in a submissive manner around him? If he has reservations about dominating you, I think you should leave off. There's a good difference 'tween acting in a submissive manner and the sort of thoughtfulness one person naturally shows to someone they care for. If your motivation is of a desire to submit, you are in effect forcing him to accept the role of the one being submitted to (even if it's only in a passive sense) and then to deal with whatever discomfort that causes him. He would also have the option of asking you to stop each time, but either way you'll be adding work to his situation. Naturally I can't tell you whether it would be worth your effort to deny yourself and wait for the issues to be resolved, but as long as you are in his life I think it's best to respect his feelings. to your piano and tea service lessons! I take ballet and have learned Japanese tea service. Very, very nice, I think. Camille 24 Nov 08, 7:19 AM 119-812-164 US, 3 yrs having a great desire to be Mastered and being without a Master is a difficult situation. the complication of having a partner makes it more of challenge. honestly, it seems as though you may be making yourself susceptible to the outside influence of others if your longing is so great, yet so unfulfilled. for the benefit of your now relationship, it seems you need to find a way to be able to exercise your submission within it and be 'tended' in the way you need to be as well. that need to be Mastered can lead you by the figurative nose ring into dangerous territory if it becomes overwhelming ... all best! grl The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions.-- Alfred Lord Tennyson (1809 - 1892) 24 Nov 08, 10:38 AM deb0rah UK, 10 yrs Hi I am sorry as life isn't easy at time and I hope you both get what you need in the future. I think you need to ask which master you are serving, the one you want who isn't ready or the master of the emotion of submission. I see nothing wrong with doing the nice things you are doing if you can accept that they are to better yourself just in case and that they are for you as a person and not for him. There is nothing wrong in making his life ok and being a kind, thoughtful person etc. If you are a slave to the idea of submission, then bear in mind that in fact you are being submissive by doing what he as asked, nothing. If, by being seen to be good etc you hope to "turn" him, then look again as that will lead to trouble. Decide your motivators and his reactions to them in the future and you will have your own answer which you probably know already. Good luck, Debs x "Woman in her greatest perfection was made to serve and obey man." John Knox