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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "Ego and Pride" 1 2 Ego and Pride (18) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. Sun 9 Nov 08, 1:14 AM tainted_desire UK, 7 yrs Deleted td Edited Wed 18 Aug 10, 11:58 PM by tainted_desire 9 Nov 08, 2:21 AM EvaMaria US(CA), 3 yrs I do think it's possible to be stripped entirely of one's ego and pride. But I think it can only be done by one person to another and it would be a very destructive thing. Ego and pride are an intrinsic part of the personality - without them what is left is an emotionally crippled human being. That said, because of how different it is to the way most of us were raised and therefore the existing basis and direction of these characteristics, I do think a successful D/s relationship requires some hard introspection and re-evaluation of ideas in a way that might be a surprise. I had a lot of priorities for which the basis was my identification as an independent, self-directed and empowered being. But like most, I had long ago shuffled this conviction to the back-brain - it was a settled idea and I didn't need to think on it anymore. When I became C's property I had to make many adjustments for my new self. Even though I was consciously aware of this new self-identification, I found that most of my old priorities were still intact - no matter that they had been created out of a belief I was working to be rid of. The upshot then was many of the choices and actions I was drawn to were inappropriate to my new situation and confusing to me in that I knew I was committed to this new way, so why should incorrect choices still have such an attraction for me? I found that I had to re-evaluate the priorities behind many of my choices ALL the way back to my sense of self. Some days, it was instance for instance. (*sighs*) Happily few of the instances required this attention more than once. Hee. I am a fairly analytical type, sometimes more than is constructive but that's what is working for me. My feeling is the sort of emotion you describe is common to all humans when they feel the gift (or commitment) they've given to another is being rejected or at least undervalued by the recipient. Is it possible your feelings are based on old priorities? If so, perhaps it would help to write down a description of your function and position in your M's life and the logic of why that isn't overlapped by his contact with other slaves/subs as you know it to be, making a point of the details that didn't pertain to your previous life but are important now. I think it might help to keep these ideas in the forefront. I think this could be a difficult one for any person - I wish you success. Camille 9 Nov 08, 8:55 AM Andrin DE, 3 yrs Ego: Maybe I have a wrong understanding of the word ego. If so please be indulgent and teach me better. But the way I understand it, ego is something every human being has, it can change or be changed, formed, altered. But it can never be given up or stripped away. (Wikipedia “In modern-day society, ego has many meanings. It could mean one's self-esteem; an inflated sense of self-worth; or in philosophical terms, one's self. However, according to Freud, the ego is the part of the mind which contains the consciousness. Originally, Freud had associated the word ego to meaning a sense of self; however, he later revised it to mean a set of psychic functions such as judgment, tolerance, reality-testing, control, planning, defense, synthesis of information, intellectual functioning, and memory.”) So I assume in the situation described you mean egoism. That certainly is something to work on. In a perfect slave egoism should be reduced maybe to the basic instincts of survival. I second Camille's approach of evaluation and re-evaluation of your priorities and consequent adjustments. Pride: The Oxford English Dictionary defines pride as “1 a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from achievements, qualities, or possessions. 2 a cause or source of such a feeling. 3 consciousness of one's own dignity. 4 the quality of having an excessively high opinion of oneself.” Consequently I would like my slave to show a lot of pride. He should be proud of the service he performs, of the achievements within this service. He should be proud for the work he accomplishes for me (e.g. when he has finished to chop down and up the trees for the 10 m3 of firewood we need for one season). Or in the given situation: if td manages to overcome her egoistic or possessive feelings, she certainly had a reason to be very proud of herself. Wikipedia says that “humility” is the contrary of pride. If a slave has reached a perfect state of humility towards his owner, he has all reason to be proud of this . So again: td it seems that you have to work on your priorities, that you have to alter the source of your pride. Unfortunately I can't advise how to do that. But I wish you all luck in achieving your goals. Regards Andrin edited for typo Edited 9 Nov 08, 5:43 PM by Andrin 9 Nov 08, 5:37 PM Master_Odin US(KS), 3 yrs tainted_desire wrote: Ego and Pride Been sat here pondering about, Ego and Pride, how does a slave manage to let go of these? td I agree with what as been said here. To remove or destroy your ego and pride would be counter productive. There are two ways to train a horse to accept a rider. One can 'break' it, or one can 'gentle' it. Breaking is quicker; it uses brute force to browbeat the animal into submission. It also strips the animal of its finer qualities. A broke horse will never give its all to its rider, it reacts out of fear and will never be loyal. The rider that gentles the mount has to take time to adjust the horse's mind, not just make it submit its body. Long hours, small steps, many setbacks. Physical force is still used, but it is balanced and surgically applied. But in the end, when the rider mounts His gentled mount, the two meld into one. The rider definitely in control, but the mount full of pride, ready and willing to serve with all its heart. If you have not had the opportunity to see a really fine horse put through its paces, you have missed a wonderful example of a Master/slave relationship. From what you have posted, I think the seeds of making your Ego and Pride work for you instead of against you are fairly self-evident. We can agree that when a Master takes a slave, he takes on a serious responsibility. We can agree that a long distance relationship takes more effort than a live-in one. You state that your Master is poly; I assume that he has at least one, perhaps several slaves in service where he lives. This is going to sound rough, but please bear with me, it will get better. Your Master doesn't really need you. He doesn't really need another person to be responsible for. He doesn't really need the additional hassle of a LDR. So ask yourself, why does he bother? There is really only one answer: You bring to your Master's life something he WANTS. Your place in your Master's life has enough value to him that the extra work he has to do to keep it is worth it to HIM. That is something you can be proud of, not haughty, but legitimately proud. Rather than destroy your ego and pride, look at the situation from your Master's prospective and try to put your ego and pride to work FOR you. Selah. There is no authority, only responsibility. 11 Nov 08, 8:24 AM masterfiremaam US(WV), 5 yrs (I'm assuming that your pride is the kind that doesn't allow you to do something rather than the kind that says you did a good job.) Pride is the result of fear. What are you afraid of? Identify that, then keep peeling away the layers until you get to the real center. When you know that, you can start to work on it. Usually, it's all about self worth. Master Fire **The power of who we are can be intoxicating.** **The power of who we could be is humbling.** **Yet, we are assured we are exactly as we should be.** 13 Nov 08, 11:23 PM hebe_pupa US(NV), 3 yrs in terms of dealing with the other subs/slaves....forgive me for putting it this way as this is only my opinion and i am putting it in the form of a question to you if you dont mind....."who are you to want to prevent your M from experiencing joy with others" it is in my opinion that when dealing with true LOVE- there can be no jealousy. hope this helps. -puppy "i love you soo much, Daddy" 14 Nov 08, 12:19 AM EvaMaria US(CA), 3 yrs 504-178-417 wrote: "who are you to want to prevent your M from experiencing joy with others" it is in my opinion that when dealing with true LOVE- there can be no jealousy. I don't think the practice of either humiliation (you are not "enough") or guilt (if so, your love is false) is ever helpful when trying to resolve an emotion a person doesn't care for. These may cause one to deny their feelings to themselves or others but invariably a toll is taken elsewhere in personality/behaviour. Emotions come when they will - they can't be called up and they can't be sent away, no matter what opinion the person may have of them. If a feeling causes problems, best to evaluate as objectively as possible and look for solutions from there. For the idea of "true" love being exclusive of jealousy, I think jealousy is most often caused by a lack of communication, understanding or even thoughtfulness. It's rarely the lack of love. Camille Edited 14 Nov 08, 12:20 AM by EvaMaria 14 Nov 08, 5:40 AM 688-764-833 US, 5 yrs tainted_desire wrote: But when he speaks to other subs/slaves, (as is he poly, which, I by the way have accepted and dealt with, so no bashing please), it's not exactly jelousy (and this I have only just worked out) it is my ego and pride that cannot deal with it, my pride won't let me just accept, I find myself thinking in very vanilla terms and very unslavelike. Hi, td. Your ego and pride won't let you accept what, exactly? That he's speaking with another s-type that he can physically be with? That he's taken on (or is looking to take on) another s-type for an additional LDR? Or is it the “why aren't I enough for you” trap (that is sometimes easy to fall into)? I am in a poly relationship. Sometimes I have a hard time with the attitude of people who look at poly as the D/O/M has gotten away with something; and that the s-types are idiots to fall for this “sharing thing”. Like it has the same stigma as being a cuckold of sorts and the s-type must be too wimpy to stand up for themselves or they're settling and sharing their D/O/M because they have low self-esteem and think they can't “get their own”. While that's not what poly is about that attitude can be hurtful: if you internalize it, it will be harmful (to your relationship and your self-esteem). But no one can make you feel any sort of shame about your relationship but you: you have to agree that what you're doing is indeed shameful to make anyone else's words have that impact. You can certainly be hurt and/or upset if someone doesn't understand the decisions you've made but it's only a blow to your pride if you buy into what they're saying. You have to give someone the power to hurt and/ or shame you. (slight tangent: my master also told me that power was no longer mine to give and if I ignore that order not only am I disobeying, I am missing out on one of the benefits of this type of relationship) tainted_desire wrote: Was just pondering if it is even possible to strip away your pride/ego for the one you serve/adore/worship? I believe it is possible to adjust it to where it needs to be. I think Camille's “priority reevaluation” is spot on; I found that I, too, had to go back to the some of the basic premises I had in relation to myself, how I interacted with the world and how I expected the world to interact with me, tweak those and then go forward from there. Add Andrin's suggestion of altering the source of your pride and I think your ultimate goal of ceasing your “unslavelike” behavior is completely attainable. And I agree that it is not an easy process. Positive reinforcement is key for me. And the fact that most of the time he “Jedi mind tricks”* me along the path to being what he wants; makes it much easier. Cheers, Leesie *btw I keep meaning to thank you for that phrase, Raven; it amused my master greatly (in a very good way, even though he's more of a Star Trek/BSG fan ) so, thank you. 17 Nov 08, 3:50 PM subluna SE, 3 yrs tainted_desire /Same quotation as in the insert above/ Owing to my opinion, a slave is supposed to be able to live in humility. That is, waiving the right of feeling pride. If you still feel pride you have not yet fully accepted your slavery. So i say: Work on it. Focus on your Dominant's pride instead, the pride of owning a slave. And behave in such a way as to make him/her radiate from the fact of owning you. In this thread there has been much talk about what we should include in the meaning of “ego”. As much as i can see there has been no distinction between ego and egoism. IMHO ego is something we bear in the core of our destiny. It can't be altered. But, already from childhood, through upbringing, we are loaded with egoisms, that is behavior meant to make us successful and able to compete with our fellow citizens. So what makes a good slave? Someone who was born with a submissive ego and is under the influence of a strong Master/Mistress, who is able to pile off the unsuitable egosisms from the slave's mind and then easily enough adapt the slave's behavior to his/her liking. By subluna Edited 10 Feb 09, 1:14 PM by subluna 17 Nov 08, 5:37 PM anjuli UK, 4 yrs Hmmm... I'm not sure I can agree completely with the last post but it raises some interesting questions. My main problem is that ego is not the same as egoism so perhaps we should start with a few definitions as the thread has headed that way... Ego is the self. A psychological term for the inner being that you are. Egoism is the opposite of altruism. It is the philosophical theory that one's self is, or should be, the motivation and the goal of one's own action. The theory is either descriptive - ie this is the way people are and they cannot be otherwise, it's just a human fact... or normative - this is the way they should be. And just to round things off - egotism means a psychological overvaluation of one's own importance, or of one's own activities... and we all know who they are! I don't think you can strip away ego - it's a fundamental to a human being so it would be pointless anyway. This is simply what the D/O/M works with. I do however agree with the assertion that egoism in a sense is antithetical to slavery and service and has to be stripped away for service to be genuine or enslavement to be established. But the final statement that a good slave has to be born with a submissive ego? I am unsure. A lot here are submissive by nature but don't seem that way outwardly. I'm not sure if that meshes with this idea or is simply another way of saying that despite appearances they are by nature submissive. <grins> I do hate philosophy at times! It's too damn confusing. anjuli ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ 19 Nov 08, 7:04 AM subluna SE, 3 yrs Dear anjuli, It seems to me that you agree with me about what is meant by ego. anjuli wrote: Egoism is the opposite to altruism. Yes it is! It is why I wrote “… make us successful and able to compete with our fellow citizens.” Of course we can hold altruistic traits as well. anjuli wrote: But the final statement that a good slave has to be born with a submissive ego? I am unsure. I am not sure myself but i have strong feeling that we will meet research that leads to the conclusion that some personal traits are hereditary. There is only months ago since the discovery of allel 334 was published. An allel is part of a gene. This one is coding for reduced emotionality in men. About 30 percent of all men are supposed to wear this trait in their genes. So what do we know? By the way: How close to BDSM is lack of emotion? subluna Edited 12 Feb 09, 8:48 PM by subluna Next page