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	TSR : Web boards : Internal Enslavement : "vanilla tenderness and feelings" 1 2 3 4 5 6 vanilla tenderness and feelings (57) This post is on the Internal Enslavement web board. 5 Aug 08, 8:17 PM sweetjane US, 3 yrs I don't know that the "sharing of emotion" is always the point in an M/s relationship. I mean, I'm sure it CAN be, but does it HAVE to be? I've had relationships/arrangements where the dominant partner and I explicitly didn't love each other and didn't want to get into all of that. We liked each other a great deal, of course. Those things worked for what they were. I'm not an extremely emotional person, and a few years ago the idea that love and tenderness were "necessary components" and an M/s relationship would have had me externally rolling my eyes and internally wondering what was wrong with me... yet again. I'm really un-thrilled with the tendency within this scene to sort of dictate what the inner lives of its participants must be: M/s "has to" be about love, someone with a personality disorder "can't" be an appropriate master, etc. and for example. Yes, yes, yes I've found love and tenderness as I've aged. But the point is that there was a time when I, as the submissive partner, was specifically not looking for that--and to say that there's something wrong with that is ridiculous. That said, I'm not going to say that the OP "should have known" and that by entering into the arrangement she tacitly--or explicitly--agreed not to be hurt by this. I fell madly in love with my own Master long before he ever said any such thing to me, and I can remember what it was like when it really seemed I'd gotten myself into an awful fix. -indie Edited 5 Aug 08, 8:18 PM by sweetjane 6 Aug 08, 12:49 AM Tragopan US(CA), 4 yrs I agree with many of the previous posts - love and affection are nearly universal human needs. And, yes, D/s relationships don't _have_ to include them... but we aren't dictating others' inner lives by mentioning that many in the lifestyle do include them. Why would I deny myself the delightful pleasure I take from loving my slave? Finding joy in your Master's approval is a good path to take. You may find that once your initial training is complete, your Master may find tenderness useful. Remember, at the beginning he may need to set a strict tone to train you properly. MindMasterLA is absolutely right about praise and punishment - when both are used they are the most powerful training tools. Even in a solely utilitarian way, a Master that never showed affection would be discarding a very effective means of achieving complete control of the slave. --Tragopan "From darkness, light." 6 Aug 08, 3:23 AM Hispreciousone US(OH), 3 yrs With respect,this girl can only state that through trial and error,she learned to go into her relationship with clarity on what was expected,each relationship has different dynamics,this girls Master fits her in regards to feelings yet He retains the Respect and Admiration of this one through His obvious superiority over her, and also His ability and willingness to show her the love she needs,in saying this,she will express strongly open and honest communucation between you and Yours,we each seek certain things in this life,perhaps continuing communication and hard work will yeild what each of Y/you need and Bless B/both of Y/you! At His feet,tara 6 Aug 08, 4:04 PM sweetjane US, 3 yrs Tragopan wrote: (1) I agree with many of the previous posts - love and affection are nearly universal human needs. (2) And, yes, D/s relationships don't _have_ to include them... but we aren't dictating others' inner lives by mentioning that many in the lifestyle do include them. (3) Why would I deny myself the delightful pleasure I take from loving my slave? (1) Nearly universal needs they may be, but universal needs they are not. The OP is obviously in a situation where her master isn't particularly interested in the giving and receiving of love and affection, or is not interested in such things with her, or is claiming so for his own reasons. Given that particular situation, which must be a painful fix in which to be, I fail to see how pages of posts on how love and affection are essential and universal are much help, and might even make for a fair amount of salt in the wound. (2) I'm glad that it got mentioned, but mentioning it and then leaving it there does nothing to address the OP's situation. (3) Why is the idea of a M/s relationship not based on love threatening to your own emotional choices? Where, and how, was anyone asking you to "deny yourself" any such thing? Can you see how your post might be taken to imply that any master ought to find such things "delightfully pleasant," and that one who didn't had some sort of problem? Maybe I inhabit a black-and-white world, but in anything short of a formalized lifelong commitment it really is simpler to determine what are and are not the circumstances under which one will live, and act accordingly. -indie Edited 6 Aug 08, 6:09 PM by sweetjane 6 Aug 08, 4:35 PM Viceand_Vertu CH, 3 yrs Individuation wrote: I don't know that the "sharing of emotion" is always the point in an M/s relationship. I mean, I'm sure it CAN be, but does it HAVE to be? Good question.. there are obviously as many way to live a M/s relationship that there are people.. and each relationship is unique, with a different alchemy. One might well have a nice relationship without.. From my personnal experience, the great added values of such a sharing are to be 'in tune' and better monitor the sub pain, pleasure, fears and feelings, and its facilitates in depth communication between the two parties. But may be only a cherry on the cake ? 6 Aug 08, 4:42 PM anjuli UK, 4 yrs Individuation wrote: <snip> The OP is obviously in a situation where her master isn't particularly interested in the giving and receiving of love and affection, or is not interested in such things with her, or is claiming so for his own reasons. Given that particular situation, which must be a painful fix in which to be, I fail to see how pages of posts on how love and affection are essential and universal are much help, and might even make for a fair amount of salt in the wound. <snip> I think you hit the nail on the head here indie, and indeed I tried to make a similar point earlier in the thread. It isn't useful at all. What was useful to the OP was the post that helped her see how to deal with the situation she is in and be happy... which she was at some pains to say she is. It's this fearful reaction to the idea of an M/s relationship that is not based on love that gets in our way of looking at it sensibly. Lots of people here have relationships where they are NOT the wife, lover, friend and so... they are Master and slave only. And many of them are long-term, strong relationships and the slaves are people I respect and admire without reservation. And they're not all wilting and sad either... they are fulfilled and happy slaves. I think some sort of tenderness is necessary so the title is confusing to me. This is an intimate relationship where being open is key. So close bonds are unavoidable and caring, gentleness and kindness, some regard for the slave, these foster trust so I can accept them as needed. But love... as in romantic, starry-eyed, emotional love? It's far from essential. Just open your eyes and look around you for obvious proof. Perhaps it's a greater, purer, service, a bigger demand and a better slave who can live this way? How about that for a scary thought for the fluffy love M/s-ers who say their way is the only one? <laughs> My own relationship is a love one and for life. And I'd argue that those bonds actively get in the way at times. Not sure why that's threatening to some as it obviously is but there are plenty here who can understand what you're saying indie, even when we're in the other boat. anjuli ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ 21 Mar 09, 7:41 PM slave_alexandria US, 3 yrs i have known my Sir for over 20 years - he cares for me. is he more abrupt sometimes - sure - he is a man. he has shown me writings of the days when harems existed - girls comforted girls - not even talking lesbianism, just tenderness. while Sir is tender and loving, he allows me relationships with girlfriends that may challenge the boundaries of "girl friend"; however he says sometimes, as a man, he is unavailable for such, as nature deems. this does not mean he is never here for his girl - he is not absent, however no one person can possibly be everything for another. do we try - yes - but we are only human. i have to wonder if someone who was not tender to their girl ever pet their pet dog or cat - or whatever... played with their snake or bird, waxed their car... it is beyond humanity but every day life to me. just a girl's thoughts... 8 Apr 10, 4:55 PM thineown UK, 5 yrs I don't consider tenderness and affection as "vanilla" concepts. The may or may not be apparant in any relationship vanilla or otherwise. I would have no struggle with this, I would want no part of a relationship where my Master did not need to both give and receive it . 8 Apr 10, 5:19 PM curious_bina US(TN), 2 yrs @391-117-605, Hum. A little hard to answer. . . This slave does still want the "vanilla" tenderness and romance, but multiplied (10x). Some "vanilla" people get uncomfortable with the amount of affection this slave would offer to one. -s Always the curious one ~ s 9 Apr 10, 12:29 PM thineown UK, 5 yrs Personnally I think that it is (potentially at least) useful to the OP and others, if comments here dispel any notion that there might be that to satisfy the need to be in an m/s relationship that you have to settle for a lack of affection. It is one of the things that made me take to long to admit to myself and explore this side of my nature. I personnally think that as with any sucessful relationship there needs to be an aligning of need and that includes what we both need to give. Finding someone that needs to give what you need and needs to receive what you need to give is, for me, the basis of a good relationship. Vanilla or raspberry ripple. Edited 9 Apr 10, 12:36 PM by thineown Next page