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	TSR : Web boards : Internal Enslavement : "Insight into Fear" 1 2 Insight into Fear (11) This post is on the Internal Enslavement web board. Sun 18 May 08, 11:44 AM 842-079-148 CA, 4 yrs I am about to embark on a 24/7 TPE situation after coming out of a 8 year D/s relationship (which was less 24/7 and more when the mood struck). I suspect that I'm not unusual when I say that I have a great quantity of fears associated with my new living situation. IE makes a lot of sense to me, as do a lot of the articals on the enslavement.org site. I'm wondering what insights and information people have, regarding fear and the IE theories (entitlement, obediance dynamics, reactance, etc). Is there any elsewhere published information on the topic that people may know about? (What I am not looking for are coping strategies; I cope well. However, that would be a great topic for elsewhere!) 18 May 08, 5:06 PM Eclectic1 US(ID), 4 yrs About the only thing I can provide is that fear stems from the unknown. Experience and knowledge expel fear. Many times our own mind creates situations that never come to fruition and cause needless anxiety. Being patient and taking things 1 step at a time may help. At least it seems to work for me. 19 May 08, 3:16 AM thekittenpup 4 yrs Be as open and clear as you can with your M. http://thiscatsmeow.bravehost.com/ http://kittypetskyler.wordpress.com/ ~~~~ Master allows me my posting privileges. He will deny and/or completely remove them as He sees fit. ~~~~ 29 May 08, 4:39 AM 842-079-148 CA, 4 yrs While I quite respect what's been offered on this topic... What I'm actually looking for is some information, perspective, or opinions on fear within BDSM as explained via the reactance theory. Thanks again for all replies. 29 May 08, 9:57 AM anjuli UK, 4 yrs 842-079-148 wrote: While I quite respect what's been offered on this topic... What I'm actually looking for is some information, perspective, or opinions on fear within BDSM as explained via the reactance theory. Thanks again for all replies. Interesting... are you asking if fear is subject to similar responses as power loss is to reactance? In other words whether fear is something one can push through and find as peace if one is a submissive? I find the idea intriguing. And I'm sorry I haven't expressed it terribly well but I shall ponder - sadly during a busy day - today and see if I can follow the thought through. I hope Tanos or lili will spot your thread and come back with thoughts too. anjuli ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ 30 May 08, 7:37 AM 842-079-148 CA, 4 yrs Let me just state that while I do have some slight history with psychology, I am no expert. And this subject, and these theories as sourced via this page are further reading than I've done elsewhere. With that in mind... Just as anxiety is associated with reactance theory, I imagine fear could be interjected as one of the emotions which the subject would be trying to minimize, or escape. If one is trying to minimize the loss of freedom, then, would it stand to reason that many don't come to experience slavery due to attempting to minimize that fear? If looking at the "variables affecting the degree of reactance", the first is strengh of a threat. Threats (don't have to, but) can imply doing something which the slave fears. As discussed in the section of "Effects of Reactance" How does an owner balance threats with fear to produce the desired effect? And what is done to hault resentment as a result of sparking the fears? While some may suggest that one shouldn't have resentment towards ones owner, I have experienced said aggression in former situations where I was a live in slave, and I personally do not feel that makes me any less of a slave than someone who is instantly obediant. The man who owns me prefers the battle which we both expect will ensue, and he's well equipt for it. But these questions and any answers are for myself. I really don't know what I'm asking, except, that I want to know more about fear when it comes to reactance theory, internal enslavement, etc. Some background on me, is that I avoided a slave situation that I wanted, and have regretted for 10 years, due to fear. I've felt paralyzed to move forward in the other areas of life, because I feel that regret. Finally, a lifelong friend of mine is moving to me, to help me realize the life I both feared having, and regretted avoiding. Given that fear seems to have had such a hold on me in that one respect, I am on a desperate search to understand it's power in BDSM and slavery so that I can recognize it, control it, and face it like a stubborn bull....so I can be a slave. Finally. 30 May 08, 3:00 PM SeanT70 9 yrs This is short, and I don't know if you can relate to this in any way at all...and no, I'm no expert, just how I get by in My own life as a rule; I'm always telling My Girl, because I believe this to be true in a great many cases, and I've also got through experiences like this Myself; Often, people run away from fear because they're afraid, instead embrace the very thing you're scared of and 'walk' towards it. The irrational is suddenly very rational. Calm. Simply put - fear is your best friend; hold it's hand and don't let go. It'll lead you where you need to be. (if you're not meant to 'be' in that relationship, you won't be...and if you 'are' you will...just don't be afraid of you fears telling you you're wrong about it..) Master's l'il one®(her Rights are Mine in reserve) 30 May 08, 4:19 PM anjuli UK, 4 yrs 842-079-148 wrote: Let me just state that while I do have some slight history with psychology, I am no expert. And this subject, and these theories as sourced via this page are further reading than I've done elsewhere. With that in mind... Just as anxiety is associated with reactance theory, I imagine fear could be interjected as one of the emotions which the subject would be trying to minimize, or escape. If one is trying to minimize the loss of freedom, then, would it stand to reason that many don't come to experience slavery due to attempting to minimize that fear? If looking at the "variables affecting the degree of reactance", the first is strengh of a threat. Threats (don't have to, but) can imply doing something which the slave fears. As discussed in the section of "Effects of Reactance" How does an owner balance threats with fear to produce the desired effect? And what is done to hault resentment as a result of sparking the fears? While some may suggest that one shouldn't have resentment towards ones owner, I have experienced said aggression in former situations where I was a live in slave, and I personally do not feel that makes me any less of a slave than someone who is instantly obediant. The man who owns me prefers the battle which we both expect will ensue, and he's well equipt for it. But these questions and any answers are for myself. I really don't know what I'm asking, except, that I want to know more about fear when it comes to reactance theory, internal enslavement, etc. Some background on me, is that I avoided a slave situation that I wanted, and have regretted for 10 years, due to fear. I've felt paralyzed to move forward in the other areas of life, because I feel that regret. Finally, a lifelong friend of mine is moving to me, to help me realize the life I both feared having, and regretted avoiding. Given that fear seems to have had such a hold on me in that one respect, I am on a desperate search to understand it's power in BDSM and slavery so that I can recognize it, control it, and face it like a stubborn bull....so I can be a slave. Finally. Hmmm... well I know from my own reading - and some recent experiences (oh dear) - that anger is a normal part of reactance. So absolutely I agree with you that that anger and resentment are normal, to be expected, and indeed - as the evidence of progress along the path of reactance - to be welcomed by the M as showing the s moving closer to the point at which he/she is pushed over and into helplessness and acceptance. I wonder if you're grasping the usage of the word threat tho. Threat in reactance theory as I understand it means a threat to a freedom. In other words, a restriction, a rule imposed on the subject. I'm sure you do have that bit but I just wanted to make sure we're singing from the same hymn sheet. It seems reasonable that fear of the loss of freedoms will often lead to an avoidance of commitment to an M/s relationship. But as with yourself, I suspect that those of us for whom loss of freedom is positive and healthy - ie once past reactance we move into a peaceful state of acceptance rather than a depressed state of acceptance which is unhealthy - end up taking that plunge despite being fearful rather than because we lack the fear at all. I know I have been fearful of taking numerous steps along the way - all the way from acknowledging the submissive at the core of me, to collaring and lots of little ones in between and since. I'm going to stop here and check that this is heading in the direction you need because I think we're feeling our way a little at the moment. Hopefully at some point you'll go 'Yes, that's what I want to ask!' and the questions will clarify for you. I am missing some of our lost friends right now because they would love to share this conversation and would have had so much to add to help you! I feel not quite up to the task but perhaps we'll learn and find expression for thoughts together? anjuli ~~~ “I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” - Anais Nin ~~~ 31 May 08, 7:34 PM postulant 4 yrs anjuli wrote: <snip> I'm going to stop here and check that this is heading in the direction you need because I think we're feeling our way a little at the moment. Hopefully at some point you'll go 'Yes, that's what I want to ask!' and the questions will clarify for you. I am missing some of our lost friends right now because they would love to share this conversation and would have had so much to add to help you! I feel not quite up to the task but perhaps we'll learn and find expression for thoughts together? anjuli, I would also really love to hear what some of those that have recently left would have contributed to this conversation. As it is though, I'm finding what's been written so far very helpful personally as I'm struggling with something that this applies to very neatly. So thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences on this topic! p. 21 May 10, 9:03 AM 154-805-237 US(OR), 2 yrs 842-079-148 wrote: Let me just state that while I do have some slight history with psychology, I am no expert. And this subject, and these theories as sourced via this page are further reading than I've done elsewhere. With that in mind... Just as anxiety is associated with reactance theory, I imagine fear could be interjected as one of the emotions which the subject would be trying to minimize, or escape. If one is trying to minimize the loss of freedom, then, would it stand to reason that many don't come to experience slavery due to attempting to minimize that fear? If looking at the "variables affecting the degree of reactance", the first is strengh of a threat. Threats (don't have to, but) can imply doing something which the slave fears. As discussed in the section of "Effects of Reactance" How does an owner balance threats with fear to produce the desired effect? And what is done to hault resentment as a result of sparking the fears? While some may suggest that one shouldn't have resentment towards ones owner, I have experienced said aggression in former situations where I was a live in slave, and I personally do not feel that makes me any less of a slave than someone who is instantly obediant. The man who owns me prefers the battle which we both expect will ensue, and he's well equipt for it. But these questions and any answers are for myself. I really don't know what I'm asking, except, that I want to know more about fear when it comes to reactance theory, internal enslavement, etc. Some background on me, is that I avoided a slave situation that I wanted, and have regretted for 10 years, due to fear. I've felt paralyzed to move forward in the other areas of life, because I feel that regret. Finally, a lifelong friend of mine is moving to me, to help me realize the life I both feared having, and regretted avoiding. Given that fear seems to have had such a hold on me in that one respect, I am on a desperate search to understand it's power in BDSM and slavery so that I can recognize it, control it, and face it like a stubborn bull....so I can be a slave. Finally. i know what you are referring to, but the only way i can describe it, is from my own experiences... this one has had the luxury of being used and owned by a couple of real wonderful pillars, aka Master's. They were able to create an aura of healthy slave fear that kept my hard (society driven vanilla person) side in check. That feeling is so hard to explain yet in my opinion paramount in any slaves mind. Now, having to relocate and move on, i was forced to go through the same process of jumping into the life, i feared letting my self go to it again because i never felt i could duplicate that feeling i had before. As i expected however my new Master has not give me that healthy fear, yet he is a really good guy. i really believe there has to be that sense of fear of the Master or Mistress, a non typical earning of respect, one that resembles the unconditional love a dog has for his owner. But the fear i had of not having that feeling again, was a entirely different set of fears. Hope this made some sense.... pet 7 Jun 10, 9:18 PM julie_sewell UK, 24 mths Y! Eclectic1 wrote: About the only thing I can provide is that fear stems from the unknown. Experience and knowledge expel fear. Many times our own mind creates situations that never come to fruition and cause needless anxiety. Being patient and taking things 1 step at a time may help. At least it seems to work for me. mmmmm interesting, i have anxiety attacks quiet often due to previously having my trust ( in a vanilla situation ) and confidence ( in the TG community ) destroyed im a 'geek' and always keep coming beck to the qoute from 'dune' - the bit where the 'witch' tells mau-dib 'fear is the mind killer, there is nothing to fear except fear itself' still doesnt completely stop me from 'messing up' or holding myself back from exploring, but it helps Next page