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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "Discipline Vs. Punishment" 1 2 3 Discipline Vs. Punishment (24) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. 18 May 08, 12:27 PM broken_minx 4 yrs there is no safe word during punishment which is a direct result of wrongdoing by the slave/sub discipline is a reminder 18 May 08, 7:44 PM Sir4Ryco 6 yrs Weaponsaint wrote: Discipline is effective. Punishment is not. Punishment is used to retaliate against the slave/sub for some real or imagined infraction. Hi Weaponsaint, I take it by your statement that, in your opinion, every M/s dynamic that uses punishment is not effective. How long have you been in your current relationship? How many times have you been a master? I'm just wondering what expertise you have to make such an all encompassing statement. In my current relationship (13 1/2 years) I use both discipline and punishment. Discipline is for minor infractions and consists of some form of training (holding a position/ a task she doesn't enjoy/ humiliation training/ a stern talking to . . .) and punishment is for the more serious infractions (of course my punishings are probably not even play to some folks here) and I always use the rod. In our dynamic punishings are a very formal affair with discussions, a time to think while in bondage, the punishing itself, and then a ritualized forgiveness ceremony. The reason I find your all encompassing statement particularly narrow is because within my dynamic I'm not the actual reason my slave needs to be punished for a serious infraction (I'm not a sadist . . . I'm actually a masochist). Many slaves, mine included, have troubles forgiving themselves after they have done something particularly wrong. Certain slave personalities can't forgive themselves even after a talking to and discipline. The guilt of their actions and their inability to forgive themselves (even though they know they have been forgiven) for those actions causes slaves, like mine, to continue to beat themselves up and eventually the original problem becomes worse. The guilt moves them into more reactance because the slave, in her own mind, can't believe that she has actually been forgiven after such a small penance (religiously loaded, I know, but I think it's the best word . . . read up on a group called the Flagellators). Something in the slave's past or even perhaps genetics (or a combination of both) needs a proper and scary (modified for the particular slave) punishing in order to believe that they have actually been forgiven . . . that the sin or crime has been washed from them. I'm sure your relationship has it's own unique personality foibles but I think that you should allow for the fact that not every relationship (don't forget that there are billions of inter- human relationships occurring right now) is exactly like yours and that every person's requirements are not identical to yours. The M/s dynamic is as varied as any relationship dynamic and an all encompassing statement about the effectiveness of punishment in every relationship is perhaps making an assumption that you understand more than you actually do about everyone and their personal relationships. Everyone does not have to be like you to be right. Sir4Ryco Edited 18 May 08, 8:17 PM by Sir4Ryco 20 May 08, 10:29 AM All_American_Heretic US, 4 yrs Did you really find it necessary to write a novel just to ask a few simple questions? I have seen enough candyassed "masters" doling out punishment as if it is the cornerstone of the master/slave relationship. I have seen punishment destroy those very same relationships. In the simplest terms- punishment is worthless as discipline is essential. Edited 20 May 08, 10:37 AM by All_American_Heretic 20 May 08, 11:12 AM Admin 12 yrs Weaponsaint wrote: Did you really find it necessary to write a novel just to ask a few simple questions? No one's forcing you to read posts... Regards, Tanos, as Admin www.seekdiscipline.com 20 May 08, 1:48 PM 675-820-429 US(VA), 4 yrs Weaponsaint As a submissive of 6 or 7 years and about 4 or more of that r/t let me just say i don't see how you got a clue. Maybe i'm wrong, but i can push a Dom to such a point there is no choice, but to punish and i don't do all it on perpuse. R/T is not like the easy road you seem to think it is and yes some do need punishment and some like me do have a hard time forgiven themselves. i could take a Dom like you and make you think you are Domming me all the while your being Dommed by me and just don't know it and not bragging i've done just that to Doms who thought they knew what they were doing. i know you have the right to like or dislike everything and anything you like, but truly man i don't see what your problem is eccept i believe you have no Dom skills, but who am i to judge, but that is my feelings. i base this on my life as a r/t sub/slave, so maybe i am not correct about you, but i feel i am, so why don't you just open your eyes and maybe your learn something. tracey Master reads and approves all posts she writes and may edit or delete if possible any post she writes, she has no secrets from her Master and is totally honest with Him and has no need to lie to her Master. Like wise her Master Has seen her profile and approved it. Edited 20 May 08, 1:51 PM by 675-820-429 20 May 08, 9:20 PM All_American_Heretic US, 4 yrs 403-930-468 wrote: Weaponsaint As a submissive of 6 or 7 years and about 4 or more of that r/t let me just say i don't see how you got a clue. Maybe i'm wrong, but i can push a Dom to such a point there is no choice, but to punish and i don't do all it on perpuse. R/T is not like the easy road you seem to think it is and yes some do need punishment and some like me do have a hard time forgiven themselves. i could take a Dom like you and make you think you are Domming me all the while your being Dommed by me and just don't know it and not bragging i've done just that to Doms who thought they knew what they were doing. i know you have the right to like or dislike everything and anything you like, but truly man i don't see what your problem is eccept i believe you have no Dom skills, but who am i to judge, but that is my feelings. i base this on my life as a r/t sub/slave, so maybe i am not correct about you, but i feel i am, so why don't you just open your eyes and maybe your learn something. tracey Keep telling yourself that, sub. Someday you just might believe it. 21 May 08, 1:31 AM Sir4Ryco 6 yrs Weaponsaint wrote: Did you really find it necessary to write a novel just to ask a few simple questions? I have seen enough candyassed "masters" doling out punishment as if it is the cornerstone of the master/slave relationship. I have seen punishment destroy those very same relationships. In the simplest terms- punishment is worthless as discipline is essential. Hi Weaponsaint, If my response was a novel to you I'm probably safe in assuming that you don't read much and that you don't read critically. If you had bothered to read the "novel" you would have noticed that it was a detailed response, refuting your brief and poorly supported 'diktat' about punishment, written from the perspective of someone who is in a long term and successful 24/7 M/s relationship. No matter how many times a "natural dominant" like you repeats a statement about M/s it doesn't, for some odd reason, become instant fact to the world at large or to this forum. You didn't even bother to answer the questions at the beginning of my thread so I have no idea about your level of experience and you didn't offer any worthwhile intellectual support for your original theory/law about punishment. If, in your view, my response was too long I must admit that I found yours too short. Sir4Ryco P.S. I suggest that you stop all the posturing. 21 May 08, 3:12 AM Sir_GreyBear76tm US(AZ), 4 yrs Discipline is required for most subs that have issues with being who they are and punishment sometimes follow but Just accept it that is why Y/your a sub . Enjoy what is giving to Y/you ! §ir Grey Bear ™† 21 May 08, 3:17 AM Sir_Sebastian1954 US(NY), 4 yrs Discipline is giving for what needs to be addressed . Punishment is taken for being a Sub. and Respect is Given when Earned take what is Y/yours and Enjoy the O/outcome ! §ir Ğaddy §ebastian© 21 May 08, 8:13 PM happybunny UK, 4 yrs bit of a quandy here...disipline is a shaping of someone methinks...whereas punishment is to chastise and remind...difficult for me this one usally punishment dosnt seem to work on me i seem to crave pain..hence can get quite cheeky...but to be ignored!! oh that really hurts Next page