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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "How to know your nature" How to know your nature (8) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. Sun 9 Mar 08, 3:21 AM sadia778 4 yrs Hi,it has been sometime u have been visiting this site.Ok i now know that people can be either submissive's or dom's,but what makes me confusing is that how a person comes to know that she is a submissive?I mean people say that there are natural submissives in this world who may not know of themselves,this is even true for countries where this lifestyle is regarded as ilegal.Is there any way to measure the physical tendency of a person,like some questionare,may be some site,etc.Moreover what if natural submissive donesnot follow wat she is,does she suffer from any harm?Thanx all. 9 Mar 08, 4:25 AM kaitlyn 4 yrs In my opinion being Submissive and being Dominant don't really seem like they can be something you "discover" rally, I mean, I think you may finally realize that there's a word for what you are but I really think it's how some people are born. I'm very submissive in my day to day life - it actually gets me in trouble sometimes because I have a tendency to follow EVERYONE'S rules or requests or suggestions, instead of just my Domme's. (That's actually something a value a lot about having a Domme - she protects me from people who might try and take advantage of me.) For me submission is just something I've always shown. I'm just more comfortable when I'm not making decisions. They scare me. I'm always afraid I'll make the wrong one and someone will end up unhappy and then it'll be my fault. I like to please people too much and it makes me sad to think that I've disappointed people or caused them to be unhappy. So, it's just better for me if they make the choices. Then I know they're doing something they want to. _ Besides, I really am bad at making choices...I never know what I want._ And, I think that, although in some countries a D/s relationship may be illegal, there will always be people like me who just always want other people to be in charge of them. So, I mean, even if they don't have a Domme they will still listen to everyone around them and do whatever they say. And, as for the dangers of it, I'd say the biggest one is not knowing you need a Domme. I mean, it's one thing to put all the power of your life into the hands of one person who you know you can trust. It's completely different though when anyone can essentially do anything because you feel like you can't tell them no. Having a Domme helps me to set boundaries because I have to in order to make my Domme happy and to keep her property safe. And since my Domme is more important to me than a random person I can stand up for myself. This is just my personal experience but I hope it helps. “Fear may induce the show of submission; but love only can truly subjugate a haughty spirit.” 9 Mar 08, 6:02 AM masterfiremaam US(WV), 5 yrs It can be hard, for sure, especially if you have a dominant or submissive personality. Personality can match role, but not always; I know many slaves with dominant personalities. First you have to think about what makes you feel happy and fulfilled, then you have to look at your motivation behind that. Even then, it can be confusing. I'm a Master with a Servant archetype. I wondered if I was a slave, especially after being submissive (or trying to be) in my two marriages. So, I decided to attend a spiritual weekend as a slave. We were collared to the Universe for the weekend. As soon as the lock clicked, I knew I wasn't, and I gained an insight into what the difference between a slave and a servant was for me. It can be confusing even more if you equate submission to bottoming and vice versa, but then find you have Top tendencies. Believe me, I know lots of sadistic slave Tops and masochistic Master bottoms. For me, being a submissive/slave or Dominant/Master is about being who you are. In your natural state, are you happiest following or leading? Are you happiest being controlled or controlling? Are you happiest yielding or insisting? If this is a spiritual path for you, what role are you called to? In the end, for many, it's a trial and error kind of thing. Like so many other areas of life, we have to "find ourselves". Explore...try...examine...and do what come naturally for you. Master Fire "Be excellent to each other." - Bill and Ted *air guitar* 9 Mar 08, 3:06 PM 483-608-929 US(OH), 4 yrs Sometimes is does seem difficult to know. In one part of one's life, they can have much control and power and do very well at that in their career, but secretly deep down they long to have someone else have the control. Possibly if they didn't need that career to survive they could turn that off and turn to submissiveness full time but even then I think they would miss that part of themselves in some part of their mind. They have the intelligence and experience and are successful. Even though at times they may say they'd love to give up that stress that comes with it, I think they would hate to waste that part of themselves and it does feed an inner part of themselves. In their personal life they are able to shed that and absorb the power and control someone else has over them. Those things that they give up willingly at that time. I think that's why humiliation is so appealing to many, it really does expose oneself and put them on a notch below and that can be very hot. Ecspecially when it's a powerful controling strong man, . It really adds to the feeling of being used and owned and so on.... lol. Maybe it's related to inner needs and those needs that are the strongest. Don't know. Just know this lifestyle can be ultimately hot and fun. Ultimately we know deeply that the other side of every fear is a freedom. Marilyn Ferguson Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together 9 Mar 08, 5:13 PM koala_slave US, 4 yrs Kaitlyn wrote: I'm very submissive in my day to day life - it actually gets me in trouble sometimes because I have a tendency to follow EVERYONE'S rules or requests or suggestions, instead of just my Domme's. (That's actually something a value a lot about having a Domme - she protects me from people who might try and take advantage of me.) For me submission is just something I've always shown. I'm just more comfortable when I'm not making decisions. They scare me. I'm always afraid I'll make the wrong one and someone will end up unhappy and then it'll be my fault. I like to please people too much and it makes me sad to think that I've disappointed people or caused them to be unhappy. So, it's just better for me if they make the choices. Then I know they're doing something they want to. _ Besides, I really am bad at making choices...I never know what I want._ I'm the same way and I agree about the whole you finally realize there's a name to what you are. My Master has been having problems getting me to obey him over my mother sometimes, especially since I'm still in school and she kind of controls my finances. Plus I can't keep both of them completely happy at the same time .:sigh:. That's all how my Master and I really got into the roles of Master and slave in the first place. He hates not being in control and I hate making people unhappy and making crappy decisions. .:koala:. i follow Elua's blessed precept 10 Mar 08, 5:52 PM MasterMattsslave CA, 4 yrs Y! i would agree that there are natural submissives in this world, but i would not classify myself as one of them. i am stubborn, opinionated, and i like to be right and have my own way. i choose to be submissive to my Master because i love Him with all of my heart and i see the benefits to His being in control of my life. i have already noticed an increased happiness on my part, as well as much less stress, worry and angst. (i used to worry all the time about EVERYTHING). i don't think a naturally submissive person would necessarily come to any harm if she/he did not follow their submissiveness, but i think they would not be as happy or fulfilled as they would be if they accepted it about themselves and acted upon it. i would say that before i became Master's slave, i lived an okay life, though it was filled with much hurt and disapointment. i feel that i am in the right place now because i have dedicated myself completely to a Man whom i know i am can trust with my whole life. i feel that O/our relationship is unique in the sense that i am not submissive, but i am submissive to Him and to His will. No other man has ever proven to me that he deserves my submissiveness and obedience, so i never before would have thought about giving it. The Master/slave dynamic is something Master and i came into together, and as W/we researched, i began to see that it is what i wanted for U/us, and luckily He wanted it too. i would never have this type of relationship with anyone else. i hope this makes sense and helps you Master Matt's slave, nadia "I will love and protect you forever. you are worth any risk. you are not broken" (Master Matt) 10 Mar 08, 8:03 PM Michael_X UK, 6 yrs Hi sadia, I agree with what Master Fire said above. I'm not aware of any sensible tool to determine if someone is a "submissive" or "dominant or "whatever". Indeed most SM people are way too complex for one word to accurately describe them. Someone can be inclined towards seeking dominance in their day to day life and yet choose a relationship in which they are submissive to their partner but take the lead in sex. Or dominant in their relationship as a whole but submissive in the bedroom. Dominance and submission sexually, and in other areas, are more about who is in control than specific acts. Only by self examination and exploring the things you think you might be interested in are you likely to work out what is right for you. Thought experiments are of very limited utility. How easy that is depends upon many things, where you live can determine what is allowed or available, how you feel about the morality of, for example, premarital sexual activities is important. Sometimes you just have to take your best guess and perhaps talk with and seek the opinions of those more experienced. Be wary of peer pressure. Many people who enter the bdsm scene find themselves pressured into conforming. There are few things more amusing than a dom who clearly alters his preferences, limits his options and behaves like a sheep to conform to the True Master(TM) ideal. More worrying are the subs who are pressured into doing things they don't want because they are a "sub". Be cautious of the claims of others as to knowledge or experience, they may know less than they think or claim, they may have a different agenda. Having said that, is unwise to too deliberately flout social conventions. There is a class system in the bdsm scene that is every bit as rigid as the UK or American caste systems. Even TSR has one. I don't believe someone will necessarily come to harm by not pursuing this. My guess would be for someone who decides they are say, a natural submissive, but pursues a very different life the key question would be, "why?". If they had other values and goals they considered more important and accepted that they had made a choice then I'd expect them to have only the occasional tinge of regret at times. On the other hand if they really wanted to pursue it and were unable, prevented by external forces and pushed into pursuing things they did not value then I'd expect trouble. Good luck, Michael. Edited to add that one should view this as a lifelong process of learning to live life. Change happens, new discoveries are made, people evolve and develop, windows of opportunity open and close, clichés rain from the skies and thus being open to new ideas and experiences is a sound strategy. Edited 10 Mar 08, 9:43 PM by Michael_X 15 Mar 08, 11:48 PM 369-359-730 4 yrs Seems everyone else has already made some very excellent replies to this thread, about the only way I can think to add something meaningful would be to talk some about how I found my own need to submit, and even further to become a slave. Something I've discovered I had in common with others through various conversations is that I fantasized about submission starting from a very young age. Things like studying Egypt and dwelling longer then strictly necessary on the lives of servants in the royal court, etc. I can remember being fascinated by such things as earlier as five years old without knowing why, but the climate I was raised in like so many others encouraged one to dismiss those thoughts as wrong and so by high school I'd clean forgotten about them. Sometime after turning eighteen I began exploring various forms of sexual expression through online role playing, and at one point was invited by someone who I now count among my closest friends to have my character become the Master of her character. At the time dominating her in the roleplays we enjoyed together was among the best experiences I'd known, though looking back now I realize that I was never once motivated by thoughts of what I wanted, always by trying to anticipate what she wanted. Upon turning twenty I undertook the very foolish path of accepting a much older woman as my slave, moving to her and finding employment to support her. This experiment failed quickly, as I soon discovered I had no true desire to ask her to do anything for me. As any submissive or slave here can attest to... there is nothing more frustrating then a 'dom' that feels guilty asking for the smallest thing. There was much hardship in the year or so that followed and it was during that time that I probably had the first inklings that I had tried to force myself into the complete opposite of what I was. It wasn't that I was incapable of being the one in charge, far from it. I quite simply hated to be in charge. It was sometime after that that rendered more or less confined to my parents house (having ended up back there after a second poor decision in choice of relationship left me quite broke and unable to find new employment) with health issues that left me able to do little more then read and reflect that I began to truly understand my nature. Several friends and quite a bit of literature helped in this, and finally I realized I had begun to crave the life of a slave. A few months and missteps later and I found the courage to seek out and agree to meet a potential Master for a period of consideration in his home. Even on the bus ride up I was still asking myself: what if I'm wrong? What if I can't possibly find it in myself to accept what I have asked for? It wasn't until I was in his presence for a few hours into our first night together that I finally realized, I had absolutely no interest in holding anything back. I suppose there must still be some parts of me that I have yet to recognize that I'm not yet ready to let go of, but even now, only the second day here, I feel sorely tempted to through everything to the winds and beg for a very permanent collar around my neck. Not yet though, we've both agreed that these things must take time to grow before the leap is taken. Anyway... hope sharing a little of my path to knowing what I was helps others reading this thread as much as I already feel it's helped me to write. Oh yeah, as to your question sadia, this one: sadia778 wrote: what if natural submissive donesnot follow wat she is,does she suffer from any harm? Personally I do feel that yes, a person can suffer harm from suppressing their nature, and I believe this applies to far more then just natural submissive. Something I meant to cover above is that through much of my life I found that I would grow excessively defensive at even the slightest suggestion of another having power over me, to the point I fear I practically pushed the entire world away and to this day have no friends that I've known for more then four years; precious few at that. Since accepting that my extreme defensiveness was largely due to self loathing for secretly loving the idea of being under the control of another I've found myself rapidly transformed into a far more social and peaceful creature that finds far more joy in his life then ever before. Working with GuideOne in the hopes that we've both found what we're looking for in each other. (Now finally in person!) "When you have given everything, then you have everything to gain." (Quote from the card "The Well of Life" from the Magic The Gathering card game... yes... I am a bit of a geek like that) 16 Mar 08, 3:04 AM davida93291 US, 6 yrs Y! I think that 369-359-730 has got it right. I think that you need to look at your history. I only came upon the world of consensual slavery very late in life. But when I look back at my history I can see clear signs that I was master material. From the very first time that I saw a movie representation of the slave, I was fascinated. I began to daydream about owning a slave and to pay special attention to every fictional representation of a slave. When I was in high school, the Latin club held a slave auction. It was one of the highlights of my year that I was able to bid on and purchase one of the younger male students even though his slavery lasted only for a few hours. And, afterwords I continue to view him with a certain proprietary spirit as if he should still belong to me. I never once desired to be auctioned off myself. And, you could fairly say that I am obsessed with the idea of owning slaves. When I got into the workforce, I got a job with a public agency. My supervisor was one of the kindest, gentlest, most thoughtful supervisors imaginable. And yet I was not able to keep that job. I could not stand being under anyone else's control or supervision. I had to be self-employed. My first effort was a business partnership. It was only a very short time before I realized that I could not stand being a partner and sharing control. I had to be in exclusive control. Even today, when consulting a doctor, I question the doctor's authority, and his judgment. I am the one who argued with the surgeon over the method of surgery to be used when my life was at stake. It was only when he had rejected my method three times that I finally gave in. I hate the paternalistic nature of our medical system. I have always been convinced that I could prescribe my own medicines. In fact, I told my doctor that I considered him just a resource. (He took it rather well.) Now that I have money to invest, I do my own research. And I make my own independent decisions. When I add all of this up, I do not find a submissive personality, even though I was raised in a family of dominating personalities and frequently came out second-best. So my answer to your question is that you should look at your own history and your own reaction in situations where dominance and submission were issues. Your history should be a good guide to who you are.