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	TSR : Web boards : M/s D/s O&P : "Faith and submission" 1 2 3 Faith and submission (26) This post is on the M/s D/s O&P web board. Thu 26 Apr 07, 6:09 AM 975-173-980 US, 5 yrs Y! Hello A/all and thank Y/you all for reading this. i just hope i am posting this in the right section. i am looking for some perspectives here from A/anyone and E/everyone that comes in. From reading posts, E/everyone here is a true melting pot of beliefs, ideas, and values; i love reading all the different thoughts and comments. While this thread is directed more towards any Christians, i welcome any and all philosophies. on to the meat and potatoes of my post. i was raised in a good Christian home with all the traditional values. many of which i still hold dear to my heart. including a deep Christian faith. my Master is gracious and understanding about my need to grow spiritually even if He isn't all that spiritual. but i have been struggling as of late with what i was raised to believe, what i have studied from the Bible, and where i am at now in my life. From all i was taught and studied in the Bible, we have on Master. but there are also passages from the bible about how a slave should properly serve her Master (if A/anyone wants them, i have them recorded *smiles*). and for me this is the tip of the ice berg. i am trying to find where my faith fits within my new life. i have voiced some of my concerns to Master, and He understands....but this is something that i need to figure out within my own heart. as much as Master might like/want to tell me what i should believe, but this is something i need to do for myself. to make myself a better slave as well as a person. i have tried talking with a few 'nilla friends who i have told about my new lifestyle with. and of course they do not understand. How can i be drawn to a Master/slave relationship? How can you no longer have rights as a slave? and all the other questions. Some i don't know how to answer...or at least without freaking them out completely. And some...how do i answer? How do i put into words the pull of my submission? How do i explain the joy of serving my Master, albeit long distance? On the good side of this though, being with my Master has taught me more about my faith. Christians are always taught "God works in mysterious ways" and "all in God's time." and that was always a hard thing for me to accept. i am curious by nature and always want to know what is going on around me. what people are thinking and doing. Well, Y/you never know with God. Period. and with my Master, any information about His thoughts or anything pertaining to me are on a need to know basis that He determines. and some days it drives me nuts. but i have to remember that while i do not know everything my Master has planned or thinks about me, i know He cares and has my best interests at heart. another lesson learned. so my question to all of Y/you out there...where does Y/your spirituality fit in Y/your life? have Y/you stopped trying to make it "fit" and just accepting both? sorry for the length, and thanks for reading and responding slave amber 26 Apr 07, 7:20 AM 503-916-874 5 yrs amber, i am not of a faith but do not practice, however i am a free and accepeted mason. This contradicts in every way my life style. When you join masonary you are asked if you are Free and of Mature age, i responded "Yes". you have said you don't have rights. If you look back through English there have been many slave/bonds'men and women. They had very little in the way of rights but were always allowed to follow there faith. Faith no matter who you are, what your position and what you believe should never be prohibited. It is part of you, makes you who you are and helps to better you as a person. Your Master sounds approachable on the subject, so talk to Him and point out the benifits of your faith to Him i am sure He will understand. From my masonary the teachings help make me a better person and this makes it benificial to my Owner. even though we are slaves of our own consent our Owners know that they could not refuse us if we wanted to leave. To this point they if, they want our service will try to be accomodating. There are, i feel, somthings even in this life style that need to be allowed. For us this Earth and not Gor, where a slave has no rights at all, and we must abide by the law as well. 26 Apr 07, 12:02 PM SeanT70 9 yrs >>Long Post Warning<< Before I start on the main body of my post, I'd just like to mention than in no way is anything I say here intended to cause any offence to anyone of any religious faith or otherwise; it is solely my opinion, viewpoint and perspective based on my own life, my Service to Miss and having read the OP. I'm not writing it in a way to cause offence necessarily, but this is just me I don't have any faith whatsoever, and it will remain so. The closest I get is I consider and accept (because we're talking Christianity right now..) that there may well have been this really nice bloke that made good furniture who people looked to for advice because he had a good outlook on life, but that's as convinced as I'll ever be. I nearly touched on Buddhism for a while though, but only, in very simplified terms because it allows you, in a manner of speaking, to believe and follow the parts you want to and leave out the parts you don't, once we step outside the main frame and fundaments of it as a religion. In many ways people mould their faith into what they want it to be and to fit their lifestyle, and still consider themselves faithful. I choose not to be religious because I find it suffocating. It causes all manner of strife, too many arguments (in families, locally and escalating to war..) I am quite happy to accept that other people need to have religion in their lives and yet they are disrespect enough to me to bring it into my home when I've asked them not to. How does that work?! All the above doesn't even touch on my life and lifestyle in itself, so let's look at that now.. Simply for reference slave amber, and certainly not to contradict you and inflame an argument in anyway, I'm going to use parts of your post as markers and reply to compare my life against yours as it were i was raised in a good Christian home with all the traditional values I was raised in a good home, albeit religion was only in the background – my older siblings had been to Sunday School, I never had. Without wishing to sound modest, I like to think I have a good heart, and I try my damnedest to be a good person especially when life is all too often very bad to me. From all i was taught and studied in the Bible.. The last organised religious teachings I went through, was in primary school, where we had the very typical thing of once weekly morning worship. I hated it. It also really grated with me because even when I was small, it stuck out clearly that it favoured one single faith and my school had students there that simply just weren't Christians, and they were made to sit through it - a tad rude in my estimation and I had my children withdrawn from it at school on principle of the fact that I wanted the kids to be able to make their own minds up and not have it stuffed down their throats. Religious Education had also been made a compulsory part of the National Curriculum although it was possible to abstain – which in itself was lucky if, for no other reason than the teacher was stuffing her own religion down the kids throats, not what was supposed to be taught! i have voiced some of my concerns to Master, and He understands....but this is something that i need to figure out within my own heart. It's good that your Master is approachable; I'm fortunate enough to me married to Miss, who I know I can, without question, talk to about anything, even if it's really very odd (and She knows I'm at least a bit strange sometimes!) Of course, your path is very much something you have to figure out for yourself. The way I see it is it would be very foolish of your Master to try to 'make' you follow a path that you were simply repelled from by your conscience. His role in this is clearly talk it through with you if you need to because he's in the situation with you. i have tried talking with a few 'nilla friends who i have told about my new lifestyle with. and of course they do not understand. How can i be drawn to a Master/slave relationship? How can you no longer have rights as a slave? and all the other questions. Some i don't know how to answer...or at least without freaking them out completely. And some...how do i answer? How do i put into words the pull of my submission? How do i explain the joy of serving my Master, albeit long distance I have to say, I particularly liked this quote, and after taking a break I've found a way of explaining why.. Some 'nilla friends of mine know about our lifestyle and only wish their husbands/boyfriends would serve them like I do Miss Sabina; they think it's 'nice', but like you say, they don't understand. There is, however, 'one' person that has all this so far wrong that it's just painful. My ('nilla) Mother-in-Law suggests in no uncertain terms that I'm not the kind of person that would take orders from ANYONE. She contests, then, that if I take orders from Miss Sabina as A Dominant, then I should be submissive to everybody. Oh dear, how wrong could someone be? I submit to THAT person, not just to anyone! Also, because (obviously), she's female, she also contends that as a girl/woman, Miss should automatically look after a man, because that's Her 'apparent' job. And (sniggers) to make matters worse? The woman's a friggin' Anglican with a very bad 'I'm Holier than Thou' attitude, sheerly because she goes to church most days and puts a few quid on the collection plate (I chose to put that in because She makes constant reference to an apparent friend who goes less than she 'call herself religious?' lol) This woman has very little worldly understanding, let alone of what we do, BUT what is odd (in a good way), we could very probably have a good conversation with HER mother, because Miss talks to Her about a lot, and quite freely, and openly. Most 'nilla religious people only have one side of the understanding, which is why, I guess, you've posted here (I know I only have the other side btw!) The thing I notice most about that quote is you have soooo many questions; it strikes me as over-analysing the situation! If that was me, I'd take a step back – a breather, and calm down, come out of the flat spin you seem to be in, and think of something else for a little while. Your natural thought processes will just take over and allow you to come to a reasonable choice all on their own, without so much as burdening yourself with a prick on your conscience. That's another thing with religion though – often it leads people to question themselves over and over again. As I said, I'm not religious, as good or bad as that makes me, but if I have a problem, or question that needs to be answered, I answer it. If I need advice, I go to Miss, because even for Her young years, She's incredibly insightful, and even if she only suggests an idea to put me on the right lines to the right answer, then I'll act on it and get there. I'm quite sure you'll get there after some thought. Internal power struggles can be a b**ch. Ultimately, only you have the answer to the question. Feel free to memo if you wish Like I said at the top of this post people, I'm not looking to start an argument from a non-religious angle and I haven't set out to offend anyone, but this is just how I see things Edited 26 Apr 07, 12:19 PM by SeanT70 26 Apr 07, 2:56 PM 554-362-101 5 yrs 975-173-980 wrote: Hello A/all and thank Y/you all for reading this. i just hope i am posting this in the right section. i am looking for some perspectives here from A/anyone and E/everyone that comes in. From reading posts, E/everyone here is a true melting pot of beliefs, ideas, and values; i love reading all the different thoughts and comments. While this thread is directed more towards any Christians, i welcome any and all philosophies. on to the meat and potatoes of my post. i was raised in a good Christian home with all the traditional values. many of which i still hold dear to my heart. including a deep Christian faith. my Master is gracious and understanding about my need to grow spiritually even if He isn't all that spiritual. but i have been struggling as of late with what i was raised to believe, what i have studied from the Bible, and where i am at now in my life. From all i was taught and studied in the Bible, we have on Master. but there are also passages from the bible about how a slave should properly serve her Master (if A/anyone wants them, i have them recorded *smiles*). and for me this is the tip of the ice berg. i am trying to find where my faith fits within my new life. i have voiced some of my concerns to Master, and He understands....but this is something that i need to figure out within my own heart. as much as Master might like/want to tell me what i should believe, but this is something i need to do for myself. to make myself a better slave as well as a person. i have tried talking with a few 'nilla friends who i have told about my new lifestyle with. and of course they do not understand. How can i be drawn to a Master/slave relationship? How can you no longer have rights as a slave? and all the other questions. Some i don't know how to answer...or at least without freaking them out completely. And some...how do i answer? How do i put into words the pull of my submission? How do i explain the joy of serving my Master, albeit long distance? On the good side of this though, being with my Master has taught me more about my faith. Christians are always taught "God works in mysterious ways" and "all in God's time." and that was always a hard thing for me to accept. i am curious by nature and always want to know what is going on around me. what people are thinking and doing. Well, Y/you never know with God. Period. and with my Master, any information about His thoughts or anything pertaining to me are on a need to know basis that He determines. and some days it drives me nuts. but i have to remember that while i do not know everything my Master has planned or thinks about me, i know He cares and has my best interests at heart. another lesson learned. so my question to all of Y/you out there...where does Y/your spirituality fit in Y/your life? have Y/you stopped trying to make it "fit" and just accepting both? sorry for the length, and thanks for reading and responding slave amber I'm a little confused as to what your confusion is. I'm not religious so bear with me as I try and muddle through. And please, correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't the bible instruct women to obey and serve their man? (or something along those lines anyway) It seems to me that there is an entire community who live a D/s lifestyle based almost entirely on the teachings of the bible. If it's the idea of "serving two Masters" when the bible instructs just one, doesn't it also specify a difference between 'earthly' masters and the one Divine God and Master? And doesn't it instruct you to serve and obey your 'earthly' master? As for your vanilla friends, I have one quote for you. "For those who understand, no explanation is needed For those who don't, no explanation is possible." There are some people who are never ever ever going to understand this choice you've made no matter what you say. Ever. For me, I consider myself lucky enough to have a "personal Jesus". At the risk of sounding incredibly corny, it's Master who fills all those 'requirements'. He has all of the power over my world, to give or take away, to bring peace and joy or suffering.. short of controlling the weather in my backyard, He controls my personal world. It's Him that I "worship". I know that doesn't help you any (sorry I can't be of any more help), but that is how I view it. Good luck, though. His_kaya Under His Hand 26 Apr 07, 3:04 PM slave_emma US(OK), 6 yrs Y! To start i am not a highly religous person, but my Master is quite devout. Before meeting my Master, i didn't attend Christian church because it just didn't fit with the way i wanted to live my life. i was a practicing wiccan at the time, but my Master didn't approve. So He changed my religion to Christanity. my Master and i started attending what they call an open and afirming church. They accept people of different backgrounds, sexual orinatations and etc. The church that W/we attend has a large homosexual population. i think W/we are probably the only M/s couple that attend there but W/we aren't outwardly telling people about O/our lifestyle choices either. Anyways, there are areas of the Bible that are still open for interpetation and some parts that simply don't apply anymore. For instance, a woman shouldn't speak in church. Her husband is suppose to speak for her. That would be a difficult task at my church considering that the preacher is female. According to the Bible your not suppose to wear clothes made of two different kinds of threads. So that means that most of what people wear these days is actually forbidden. That also means that a number of the little outfits my Master has me dress up in i shouldn't be wearing, because they are a cotton/polyester blend. There are parts that i take to heart, like how a wife is suppose to be submissive to her Husband and she is suppose to obey Him. That fits well into my life with my Master/Husband. However, that wouldn't fit well for male slaves who have a Mistress or homosexual C/couples. The point is that at least for me, when i read the Bible, i know i can't take everything at face value. It was written 2000 years ago and somethings just no longer apply or they may apply in a different way. Good luck on your religous journey and your journey into slavery. best wishes, slave emma Master Howard's little girl 26 Apr 07, 3:32 PM susieslave 6 yrs I am a High Priestess of the Craft and my Master knew this before we married and went into a BDSM relationship. Master knows that he cannot change my religion. Ok some of you may say that it is wrong and a Master can do what he wants. Due to the fact i was born into a pagan family going back to the Pendle witches he would be changing me into something i am not. So mote it be Brightest of Blessings to all susieslave 26 Apr 07, 9:26 PM slave_luci 5 yrs i am a Christian and my beliefs play a big role in my life. Master and i discussed O/our spiritual beliefs long before any commitment was ever made and He is a Christian as well. i could not serve a Master who did not share my Christian belief because that is the one issue i could never permit another to control. Even Master does not outrank God or Christ in my life and Master agrees it should be so. It is O/our belief that the well-being of one's soul comes first. With that said, He and i have talked about how the nature of our relationship is quite biblical. The scriptures about how Sarah called Abraham "lord" and "my lord" are personal favorites. Wives are called to submit to their husbands (as long as the husbands love the wives as Christ loves the church and as long as they give honor to their wives as to the weaker vessel). The Scriptures even say that a husband's prayers can be hindered by not treating his wife properly. Thus, the basic nature of my relationship with Master fits squarely into this model. i think what perhaps troubles many Christians who look into this lifestyle is the "kink" of it that is so often present. Obviously, this is an individual choice but, there are no specific prohibitions against it (when done between married people). Now there ARE several specific "no-no's" mentioned but they don't specifically apply to BDSM. "Fornication" is probably the most oft-mentioned sin of a sexual nature. By definition, fornication is "unlawful sexual intercourse of an unwed person" - different from adultery which is also mentioned as sin. The Bible specifically advises in I Corinthians Chapter 6 that we are to "flee fornication" because that is a sin against our own bodies. Fornication, by the definition above, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with BDSM. It just refers to sexual activity between unmarried people. This is every bit as prevalent in the vanilla world as in BDSM. i say all that to say this: in my view it does NOT violate biblical principles as long as a man and woman are married. It seems the sexual activities in which they choose to indulge are pretty much unrestricted as long as they are lawful and do not involve other people. (Darn - no other people???? Can't i forget about that part? LOL). Just a note: i personally find nothing wrong with unmarried individuals indulging as well but we aren't talking about MY rules here. Seriously, that long-winded explanation hopefully shows the importance of O/our spiritual beliefs to U/us and shows why W/we believe that the nature of O/our M/s relationship does not violate biblical principles. Are W/we sin free? No way. But W/we do O/our best to adhere to the principles of O/our faith.......slave luci "Dismiss what insults your soul" - Walt Whitman "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign: the dunces are all in confederacy against him" - Jonathan Swift 27 Apr 07, 12:14 AM euleroslave IT, 6 yrs Hi everybody, I don't like to talk about religion because it's always a delicate topic, but I'll give you my point of view. I guess you're a protestant because you were looking for your answer directly in the Bible, if it's wrong please correct me, I'm a cattolic (not a praticant but I followed what you call sunday school untill my confirmation) so this should not fit, for us fornication is having sex with no intention to have a baby (even between married people), so also using condoms is a sin, to be precise is a sin everything gives you sexual (or any other kind of) pleasure not necessary, so also submitting to someone in your case, we also can't look for some kind of sentences on the Bible that sims to give us permission because it's a "concilium" that has to decide it. So if you feel the need to submit for your pleasure there are two possibilities, or you resist and with some luck you become a beate, or after making what you wanted you feel dirty, at this point you can tell everything to a priest, recive a little punishment and feel better. I conclusion no-one is supposed to go against his/her nature, the important is to feel guilty and hide it. 27 Apr 07, 12:37 AM slave2master US, 5 yrs 975-173-980 wrote: Hello A/all and thank Y/you all for reading this. i just hope i am posting this in the right section. i am looking for some perspectives here from A/anyone and E/everyone that comes in. From reading posts, E/everyone here is a true melting pot of beliefs, ideas, and values; i love reading all the different thoughts and comments. While this thread is directed more towards any Christians, i welcome any and all philosophies. on to the meat and potatoes of my post. i was raised in a good Christian home with all the traditional values. many of which i still hold dear to my heart. including a deep Christian faith. my Master is gracious and understanding about my need to grow spiritually even if He isn't all that spiritual. but i have been struggling as of late with what i was raised to believe, what i have studied from the Bible, and where i am at now in my life. From all i was taught and studied in the Bible, we have on Master. but there are also passages from the bible about how a slave should properly serve her Master (if A/anyone wants them, i have them recorded *smiles*). and for me this is the tip of the ice berg. i am trying to find where my faith fits within my new life. i have voiced some of my concerns to Master, and He understands....but this is something that i need to figure out within my own heart. as much as Master might like/want to tell me what i should believe, but this is something i need to do for myself. to make myself a better slave as well as a person. i have tried talking with a few 'nilla friends who i have told about my new lifestyle with. and of course they do not understand. How can i be drawn to a Master/slave relationship? How can you no longer have rights as a slave? and all the other questions. Some i don't know how to answer...or at least without freaking them out completely. And some...how do i answer? How do i put into words the pull of my submission? How do i explain the joy of serving my Master, albeit long distance? On the good side of this though, being with my Master has taught me more about my faith. Christians are always taught "God works in mysterious ways" and "all in God's time." and that was always a hard thing for me to accept. i am curious by nature and always want to know what is going on around me. what people are thinking and doing. Well, Y/you never know with God. Period. and with my Master, any information about His thoughts or anything pertaining to me are on a need to know basis that He determines. and some days it drives me nuts. but i have to remember that while i do not know everything my Master has planned or thinks about me, i know He cares and has my best interests at heart. another lesson learned. so my question to all of Y/you out there...where does Y/your spirituality fit in Y/your life? have Y/you stopped trying to make it "fit" and just accepting both? sorry for the length, and thanks for reading and responding slave amber Wow...i could have written this post, and i do thank you for taking the time to write it. i don't really have any of the answers, but i do share your questions. Since i was a teenager, i have always considered myself a Christian and i have always had a deep faith in God. i have also been taught that i am to serve one Master. When i first became a slave, this bothered me a lot, for i felt very conflicted to the point i even asked for release. And my Master was gracious enough to grant me that release, desiring my peace and happiness above anything else. He did not want to interfere with my faith and He has never tried to interfere with my faith, even though His beliefs are different. But i missed Master so much, and i just could not continue without Him. So i humbly asked if He would take me back as His slave. i have come to reconcile it all in my mind. Maybe i am rationalizing it. i don't know. But it is working for me. i have always had the need to serve and obey. i have always known that i am submissive. Master has my best interests at heart. i truly believe that, and because of that, i do not see a conflict between my slavery and my faith. i also read in the Bible about my heavenly divine Master as being separate from my earthly Master. So that shows a distinction and an acceptance as well. I am far from perfect. i do a lot of things that i am not proud of, but most of those have little or nothing to do with my slave status. God knows how broken this slavegirl is. He knows the dark places from where i came and the places i am going. And it may sound strange, but in obeying my Master, i am also learning to be more obedient to God. i am learning to be a servant in more ways than one. It may not be a perfect scenario, but it is working for me. Edited 27 Apr 07, 12:42 AM by slave2master 27 Apr 07, 4:57 AM 662-935-655 5 yrs i've Mentioned before on here that Master is a priest/Elder in our faith- a Christian Church. You mentioned the Bible speaking about slaves surrender to Masters. But there are also many i can think of about wives submitting to Husbands. And in Genesis in the story of rebecca becoming Isaac's wife, it makes it clear that when she entered with him into his deceased mom's tent, they WERE married in God's eyes. And the same is said about Mary and Joseph in one of the Gospels - it has to be Mathew or Luke, as the other two don't mention it. It says that Joseph was going to put Mary away or divorce her - Jewish custom requires a divorce if engaged folks seperate to this day - but Joseph had a dream and took her home as his wife instead - and from the time he took her into his home as his own, they were married. So it still apples whether you are "legal" or not. And in the epistle of Peter, first, 3:1-7, it talks about specifically obeying those who aren't believes as perhaps they can be won, without a word, by your submissive example. (paraphrase there) And even if you're in a poly family, Jesus spoke against divorce. But in the OT or Hebrew Scriptures, people had multiple wives, etc. AND JESUS NEVER SAID NO THIS - anywhere - in His words or even in the epistles or book of revelation. In fact when the Pope would not let King Henry the 8th of England divorce his wife, the king turned to Martin Luther - the one who started the protestant reformation. Luther told him the Bible said Divorce was out, but suggested polygamy. Before i joined this Church, i was ordained as H.Priestess in Wicca - and now i'm in this Church of all things. And i am a student of comparitive religion - have been told i had the equivalent of a doctorate in it, a couple of times. in a previous marriage i converted to Reform Judaism as my ex - one of them - was Jewish. Then i found in the Bible - in the Torah/Pentateuch, that is the first 5 books of Moses, and i don't remember which one, that your slaves are supposed to be released in the year of the Jubilee, but if one refuses to be free, then you put them agaist the doorpost and pierce them via an awl in the ear. i believe it was the right ear, but i can't remember. i hope some of this gives you solace and that i haven't bored everyone else waxing theological. Of course i could probably be thrown out of our Church for saying what i have about marriage being marriage without the legalities and polygamy. Oh well! i hope some of this helps you. If you need to talk privately, memo me! i will respond. But you know it wasn't so long ago when ALL Christian women who were married said they vowed to love, honor and OBEY - for many centuries 99% of women lived in submission. And they still do in 2/3 or so of the world. j/L Papa's OWN PS if anyone is wondering how a Wiccan H. Priestess can be in a church and also Jewish, it's like this - short form. Our church teaches that God has a feminine aspect/counterpart and in Judaism there are the very-little known secret teachings (until recently) called Kabbalah, which teach that God has a Presence called Shekinah which is His feminine aspect when He manifests as male and Her masculine aspect when She manifests as female, in other realms. So i'm not totally nutso - it does all fit for me. Okay, so i'm mostly nutso, but it does all fit FOR ME in a way that works out comfortable. i hope i didn't shock anyone! That's why in regular e-mail my sig is a quote from Bono at the (U.S) national prayer breakfast where he says he doesn't really know why he's there and invited to speak, as he's not a man of the cloth - unless the cloth is leather. It was at the 06 one and i just love the quote. Thanks for putting up with me! (GRIN) P.P.S. FREEMASONS ARE AWESOME - my uncle is one and i've had the privilege of knowing others. Many of them go one better than the religious folks. P.P.P.S - i promise the last, i'm exhausted and not writing as clearly as i'd like my favorite Bible verse 1 John (epistle, not gospel) 4:7 & 8 "BELOVED, let us love one another, FOR LOVE IS OF GOD and E V E R Y O N E that loveth is born of God and knoweth God, He that loveth not, knoweth not God, for GOD IS LOVE!" Edited 27 Apr 07, 5:13 AM by 662-935-655 27 Apr 07, 7:08 AM 503-916-874 5 yrs By the way---I don't really get into religion as a topic much, as it's 100% opinion. Too many people have been killed throughout history because of it, and the only way to keep that trend from continuing is to realize that little fact. My way isn't the best way for anyone else, nor is their way the best. This is, in fact, only my opinion Thank you for writting the above. There are two subjects we never talk about in masonary either bro to bro or in lodge and they are politics and religion. W/we all have our opinion and are entitiled to that. W/we are no entitiled to kill others because our religion is the one trun religion. Free masonary recognises a supream being that could be God, Budda, Mohamed or who so ever you believe i suppose even the devil or the president as long as you believe in something. P.s. didn't mean to offend anyone by quoting the devil and president together. Next page