Tue 14 Nov 06, 6:39 AM
His_pet_kitty
US, 5 yrs
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Philipy wrote:
444-019-832 wrote:
Master and His sub have a D/s, and Master and pet, M/s. These are NOT the same thing, and there are distictive and gaping differences between them,
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Hi and welcome.
Since you are in the fairly unusual situation of being able to directly compare a sub and a slave in realtime, I wondered if you could be a bit more specific about the differences ( other than the S/m aspects)? As you may have seen, there are continual debates on TSR about the meanings of these concepts but we all come at them from wherever we happen to be, without the ability to put examples directly alongside each other.
Philipy
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pet hopes she is posting this in the right forum. she has spent a few days now pondering this, trying to quantify and be able to properly word things that are more felt than known... she will do her best, and begs the patience and understanding of T/those reading her words...
**DISCLAIMER PARAGRAPH** First off, understand that these are pet's views and opinions based on the observations she has made of ONE sub and ONE slave. Also bear in mind that pet is a slave, not a sub, and none of U/us in this relationship think a sub and slave are the same thing, or even on the same spectrum. pet will get into this in more detail later in this post, but bear in mind that these reflections come from the viewpoint of a slave. These comments are not meant as a be-all end-all definition, and she certainly is not intending any offense to any group. pet feels somewhat that labels are a poor way to define oneself, but she also thinks that labels hold their value as well, so, with that paradoxical comment..
A lot of the difference between pet and Master's sub (who goes by puzzle OL, so pet will use that here to avoid excess confusion) boils down to the choice debate, and the levels of power exchange involved. pet is a slave. she made the choice to surrender her power once, totally and completely, and that meant ALL her power. No limits, no safewords, no out. pet is not free to walk away unless her Master releases her. she has no rights, no privileges beyond what He grants her. This does not make pet into a mindless automaton; quite the contrary. Much like Raven's boy Joshua, pet's Master very much values her mind and personality, her input and thoughts, and frequently asks her about them. That is a part of her that she is much encouraged to keep, nurture, and feed. Now, that is all done within the context and boundries of the Protocols Master has set for His pet. her opinions and thoughts are welcomed, but they are to be presented respectfully, and not forced. pet has never felt oppressed within all this, never felt inferior or undervalued. When pet and Master sat down to do the inital negotiation of O/our relationship, it was with the knowledge that, with pet's acceptance of the Protocols and His collar, there would be no further negotiations, and the relationship would be TPE from that point on, and she would not have the right or choice in anything any longer. And maybe negotiation is the wrong word. It was more a setting of the Protocols, and Master and pet explaining what it was W/we both wanted from the relationship. It was more of an "Event Horizon" than anything else, Master's last offer and pet's last chance to walk away, to retain her freedom of choice. The point of no return, the point where from then on, pet was owned, property, Master's, and nothing more. That has held true. Protocols have been added and changed, and while Master has occasionally asked pet's opinion on it, it has been by His whim or desire. Master and pet do NOT have a contract of any form. W/we did not see the need for it, and did not feel it was in line with what O/our belief of TPE was.
Now, Master and puzzle (she calls Him "Sir") have a D/s relationship. puzzle is Master's sub, and their relationship seems at times a CONSTANT negotiation process. puzzle has a safeword, and uses it when she absolutely needs to. Her limits, as well as Master's, are defined, and she and Master work within and around them. There is a power exchange dynamic between them, but it isn't a TPE, but rather a consensual control, if that makes sense. puzzle's submission is a consious, continual choice. Every time she is faced with a decision, an order, or a situation in which her submission is needed, she makes the choice to submit, or not to submit, to Master's control. They frequently will sit down, plan and discuss a scene, thus ensuring that both of their needs and wants are met.
pet thinks, (and this is sure to spur some heated debate, please go reread pet's disclaimer paragraph above before flaming her) that a lot of the difference between a sub and a slave is the power and control level. It doesn't really matter how Y/you want to phrase or look at it, a sub retains ALL the power and control in a D/s dynamic. The sub chooses to "give" (if Y/you will) that power to the Dominant, but the sub retains it, ultimately, or at least the right to take it back. Now, this in no way whatsoever lessens or cheapens the submission that is given. Properly done, not abused, the Dom does have power and control of the sub, and the sub is able to give that over, and only uses her safeword when she NEEDS to, rather than when she decides she doesn't want to do whatever it is the Dom is doing anymore. pet also thinks that while the initial work for a M/s relationship (the negotiation, the training, the settling into the dynamic) is more intensive, after that, it is more maintenance than anything else. A D/s, on the other hand, requires a higher level of constant maintenance than M/s, as the relationship is pretty much in a state of constant negotiation. This is not to say that M/s is easy, or easier, than D/s, only different.
With that in mind, M/s and D/s have to be approaced from different ways. They are NOT a continum of the other. A slave is not a "truer" or "deeper" submissive. A submissive is not a more "dominant" or "power hungry" slave. They are two different creatures. Master frequently says that the same holds true for a Master and Dom. He has to shift gears, and occasionally, as W/we all settle into the dynamics of this, Master will get stuck in one role or the other, and find Himself with two very confused girls. A sub is not a slave, and vice versa. The mindset is different, entirely, and that is one of the most crucial points of difference, pet thinks, between a sub and slave. pet, when she first met her Master, was His sub. she had, until that point, refused to be someone's slave until she felt she could trust the person to give them full and total control of her. pet thinks this probably holds true for a lot of slaves. It is very difficult to open oneself to someone that fully, when the potential for harm is so great, so a lot of slaves hold that back, becoming subs instead, but that leaves us craving more. pet found herself CONSTANTLY reaching, searching, needing that total exchange with Master, something that had never been more than a vague want suddenly was an intrinsic need. pet does believe that the dynmaic finds itself, rather than the M/s couple finding the dynamic. There was, quite literally, a point where Master and pet came to the sudden realisation that they had progressed out of a D/s and into an M/s, and at that point, W/we sat down, and did the Protocols, and pet begged His collar as His slave. It simply happened, rather than it being a goal. Many M/s couples get together with M/s in mind, and work towards it. pet still feels that with those couples, however, there is something that is already existant in the relationship, something that allows that M/s dynamic to exist without having to be "formed" if that makes sense.
Now, the mindset difference is a big one. pet is a slave, so some aspects of being a sub like puzzle is are forigen to her, and hard to grasp. The same holds true for puzzle grasping aspects of slavery. So, keep that in mind when Y/you read this.. all of these opinions are from the POV of a slave... puzzle and pet like to sit with each other, and discuss the differences, and sometimes, the difference in perspective allows us to make leaps in our individual growth as a sub or slave.
So, now that pet is done with her novel *grins*, she'll leave Y/you all to comment and ponder... she's not sure she actually explained anything, or answered any questions... but it was kind of fun to write all of this out, and sort it all out on "paper". Take care A/all! ~ i run where daemons fear to stand, i dance unscathed within the sun, beneath His power is my freedom, within His darkness i am undone.~ (pet, 2006)
pet
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