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	TSR : Web boards : Internal Enslavement : "Outstanding submissive or faltering slave" 1 2 3 Outstanding submissive or faltering slave (25) This post is on the Internal Enslavement web board. 17 Oct 06, 12:18 AM 461-543-525 US, 6 yrs Y! i knew i was owned by the simple fact that i want to make him happy. there is something between us that i cannot explain, but to hear his voice i can feel myself submitting to him. it is a reaction, at least for me, that runs far deeper then with any other relationship i have. i want to please him and he is always on my mind. his happiness is my highest concern. though i have been devoted to other boyfriends before him, they never owned me. his ownership of me is an extension of my trust in him. not to say that i can't make my own decisions or that i can't do anything on my own, but it is something that i feel in the core of my soul. something like this is hard to explain, at least for me, but one of those things that you just know. though he owned me even before we became Master/slave and we were with other people (too complicated to explain on the posts). he owns me, heart, mind and soul, and i love that i belong to him. i am his and it offers me a sence of peace. 461-543-525 Whiteknight's First Kitty and slave 17 Oct 06, 12:19 AM little_linnet US, 6 yrs princess4dfd wrote: how would you clarify the point that you become "owned"? By a collaring? By when your Master considers you to be? Or some other "milestone"--whether it be tangible or not? Speaking only for myself, it has by no means been a black-and-white transition. I keep experiencing new jolts of realization about how ... how deep I've swum? if that makes sense. (For some reason most of my analogies about enslavement tend to be related to water. I'm sure there's a Jungian reason there.) If I had to pick one moment, I would say the defining moment would be when I realized that I really, genuinely couldn't end the enslavement on my own no matter what I said, thought or did. I did regard myself as "owned" before that point, which makes it confusing, I know, but I think the difference was that before he was prepared and able to reinfoce his authority over me through the difficut times, and when I fully realized I couldn't stop being his it was as if his reinforcement had taken root inside me; he didn't have to hold on to me or bring me back into line so much as quietly wait for my internalization of his ownership to kick in and bring me back into line. As if what he had been planting and watering had finally taken secure root. I'm sure that both parties considering themselves owned and owner are of critical importance in enslavement; but I don't think they're the sole determinants. Tanos once said that slavery is an internal, but an objective state; meaning, I think, that although the restraints are internal and not external, there are objective points of reference for the enslavement, namely that the slave can't choose not to be a slave anymore. I know of plenty of couples who regard themsleves as owned and owner, but the dominant simply doesn't hold power over the submissive that would prevent her from removing herself from the relationship if she decided to. Krista (Previously "proudflesh") Under my thumb / The sweetest / Pet in the world www.xanga.com/proudflesh 17 Oct 06, 3:23 AM 605-871-804 US, 5 yrs Y! Thank you for your reply. This thread has been very helpful to me, learning. I guess in actuality I am a submissive or a latent slave. Internal Enslavement...not necessarily a goal but a state of being that one may achieve. Sorry I am not as eloquent as others on the board...at least not at this hour. 17 Oct 06, 3:27 AM 461-543-525 US, 6 yrs Y! you are exactly right, IE is a state of being. and not one that is meant for everyone. don't worry about being eloquent...sometimes those who are eloquent are just rambling...other times they are english majors/writers (like me...not to say i don't ramble at times). the important thing is you get your point across in an understandable way. 461-543-525 Whiteknight's First Kitty and slave 17 Oct 06, 8:11 AM 631-535-398 US, 6 yrs Y! If being good all the time or jumping to do everything Master said made me a slave, i sure wouldn't be right now. i am having problems and they have shown in major reactance and having to step back from training and everything. And i recently have asked my Master if maybe i'm not a slave (at least not all around.) i do have the bedroom part 'mastered' but that was second nature to me, what i've always been wanting and even trying to push in other relationships before i knew anything about any of this. What He tells me is that as long as i am willing to keep trying for Him, and He sees how bad, distraught and upset i am at not being able to follow His commands, He knows i am a slave. For U/us the difference between submissive and slave is a submissive has control to say to the Dom, hit me here, do a scene with me as a rape victim, and when where and how they will submit. For instance if i told my Master i'd only submit to Him in the bedroom and don't try telling me to control my diet, or to make me go to bed at some time i don't want it. Then maybe i'd be a bedroom "slave" but submissive in ok You can control when i do laundry. That would be on my terms. As it is i can suggest, Master a rape scene turns me on Master, i dream of La la la... And it is up to Him if He wants to do it or not, or anything else He wants to do. The only thing He feels compelled to do is take care of my needs. Things that keep me emotionally, physically and mentally healthy. But even those are at His discretion and wether He thinks it a need or not. i am under orders to tell Him everything i think about, feel, wonder, etc... in essence to be the self analyst chatterbox i am And He takes what He wants from that, and also learns more about me all the time to where He knows exactly what something will do to me, or has done to me, how i feel about things, and if i don't like it, then it makes Him happy that i submitted anyways, and also gives Him ideas for punishments, if i liked it, makes Him happy (cause He likes a happy pet most of the time) and gives Him ideas for rewards, but He is still in control. Whew.... let me breathe... So in summary, what it means to U/us is the willingness to submit and trying to do what the Dominant wants, even if i don't want to. And more than anything the feelings inside me. i am enslaved IE. In other words the Internal Enslavement to Him is such that if i displease Him i get extremely depressed, even thinking He might be upset throws me in a funk and i can't stand it, i can't imagine ever leaving Him and don't want to. i couldn't leave Him. One time (i have depression) i tried to kill myself, everything else was out of control and i didn't think i was anything but a burden to my Master. i lied to everyone about the amount of pills i took, He called me and talked to me, and i tried to evade Him, but He made me tell Him the truth just by asking several times, what i'd done, how many and so on. This enabled Him to pretty much save my life. Even though i thought at the time i was doing everyone a favor, i could not lie to Him, even for His Own good, and although i was set against it. (don't feel like that anymore and yeah i realize it's stupid to kill of Master's prized property lol) But it showed me that i had no choice anymore with Him. i couldn't refuse Him on anything truely serious. Actually on anything He really puts His foot down on. i am unable to. slave giolla (with her $2.00) 17 Oct 06, 5:30 PM 000-893-906 NO, 8 yrs slips in, and smiles. who you are inside - naturally - i think you are born as. Society shapes and forms us to change into someone else often, because it is simply not practical to always be a slave - or to live in TPE. One Dom can bring out the slave in a girl - another Dom can kill that just as easily. i do not think there is any true answer to being slave/submissive/bottom... But in my humble opinion - communication is a MUST always. Doms can not read our minds anymore than a submissive/slave can read Theirs. Share dreams - wants and needs. Admit to fears, and above all - be honest. For me...it is what comes natural. What i need to do - not necessarily want to. To me - submission is as natural as to eat and breathe...but i do not surrender easily or to any calling Himself a Dom. if it feels wrong...it usually IS wrong. as in all sides of life - being smart also is so very important in a D/s setting. Trust is one thing. Blind faith might be dangerous. just a thought...s... 17 Oct 06, 7:08 PM MasterCoyote US(WI), 5 yrs I'd say simply that the differances are whatever the person in question considers them to be. Seems the differances here vary from point to point on some things. But the differances when it all comes down are the individual and the relationship they are in. Remember some folks say dodge, chevy hummer, but to the rest of us a trucks a truck. with reguards, MasterCoyote owner of coyotes_kitten. 17 Oct 06, 7:36 PM His_devada US, 5 yrs 879-717-990 wrote: Hello everyone, Just a question. Has anyone else ever gone from being an absolutely fantastic submissive, transitioned into enslavement and found that they just are not as "good" at it? i found submission like a second or even first nature. But my heart and soul longed for more and i asked for enslavement after much soul searching and thought on the matter. i am in a 24/7 M/s relationship and live in. i am due to be collared in December if things are appropriate. i just feel that i am not as natural a slave as i was a submissive and i feel that i let my Master and myself down alot more in this role. Which would you rather be, a great submissive or a trainee, faltering slave? Does anyone else have any experience of this? slave tsina I thought about this thread last night--and some others where the Masters/Owners have been more vocal. Something occcured to me; do YOU feel that you are not being as good of a slave as you were submissive? Or does your Master? It is not our jobs as slaves or submissives to determine how good of a job we're doing. Maybe you are doing just fine and it is you being hard on yourself and feeling like you are not doing as good of a job because your Master is not giving you the praise that he did as a submissive. It is common for small accomplishments I do to go un-acknowledged because I am not going to get a pat on the head for remembering to put extra ice in his glass. He showed me once precisely how much to put in and I should remember from then on...but it doesn't mean he doesn't NOTICE. Does that make sense? Tanos made a comment a few days ago about how these boards and the topics tend to become very wrapped up and revolve around the slaves' point of view. But maybe too much?? Sometimes I feel discouraged like I am not doing a good job and my Master will notice that my mood is a little "down". If he asks me what is wrong and I tell him, "I just feel like I have not been doing a good enough job" he almost always reassures me that I am doing great. That is when I must remind myself that I am not his slave because of the satisfaction it brings ME (although that is a bonus) but because of the happiness I want to give to HIM. Maybe you are doing a better job than you realize because he hasn't given you the praise you need to know that you are doing good. Have you thought of asking him what you could do better or if he is happy with the job you are doing as his slave? Maybe the answer would surprise you?? There will surely be a few slaves who strongly disagree with me here, but this is just a thought. princess4DFD Master's pleasure is my pleasure XOXO 19 Oct 06, 10:44 AM 879-717-990 UK, 5 yrs Thank you all for your comments. i think my basic question was had anyone else ever made the transition from submissive to slave and found that submission came very naturally, yet slavery did not. Although i could feel the IE process taking place in my heart and even though I know in my heart that i am a slave, i have felt that i have not been able to perform as naturally, instinctively as a slave as i have as a submissive. i hope that clarifies what i am saying. Also, must please point out, my Master is the most intelligent man i have ever met and quite experienced. i am in no way questioning His actions in my training experience. This is an internal turmoil, mine alone. We have discussed my feeling that i am not performing well enough, that i have "gone backward". it grieves me i must tell you. He watches me carefully and is very concerned about my welfare, especially my mental and emotional health. i take Tanos' point that a title is not the important issue, the service to my Master is. my Master agrees. i need the identity of what i am, my Master does not need titles for me, if you can understand what i mean. i am a perfectionist and i take any displeasure in my Master's life quite personally if it has come from something i have said or done. And i don't get over it easily. That is my fault. i only want to serve Him and for Him to be happy. Yet He cannot be happy if His slave is not happy. *sigh* slave tsina 19 Oct 06, 10:47 AM 879-717-990 UK, 5 yrs 631-535-398 wrote: If being good all the time or jumping to do everything Master said made me a slave, i sure wouldn't be right now. i am having problems and they have shown in major reactance and having to step back from training and everything. And i recently have asked my Master if maybe i'm not a slave (at least not all around.) i do have the bedroom part 'mastered' but that was second nature to me, what i've always been wanting and even trying to push in other relationships before i knew anything about any of this. What He tells me is that as long as i am willing to keep trying for Him, and He sees how bad, distraught and upset i am at not being able to follow His commands, He knows i am a slave. For U/us the difference between submissive and slave is a submissive has control to say to the Dom, hit me here, do a scene with me as a rape victim, and when where and how they will submit. For instance if i told my Master i'd only submit to Him in the bedroom and don't try telling me to control my diet, or to make me go to bed at some time i don't want it. Then maybe i'd be a bedroom "slave" but submissive in ok You can control when i do laundry. That would be on my terms. As it is i can suggest, Master a rape scene turns me on Master, i dream of La la la... And it is up to Him if He wants to do it or not, or anything else He wants to do. The only thing He feels compelled to do is take care of my needs. Things that keep me emotionally, physically and mentally healthy. But even those are at His discretion and wether He thinks it a need or not. i am under orders to tell Him everything i think about, feel, wonder, etc... in essence to be the self analyst chatterbox i am And He takes what He wants from that, and also learns more about me all the time to where He knows exactly what something will do to me, or has done to me, how i feel about things, and if i don't like it, then it makes Him happy that i submitted anyways, and also gives Him ideas for punishments, if i liked it, makes Him happy (cause He likes a happy pet most of the time) and gives Him ideas for rewards, but He is still in control. Whew.... let me breathe... So in summary, what it means to U/us is the willingness to submit and trying to do what the Dominant wants, even if i don't want to. And more than anything the feelings inside me. i am enslaved IE. In other words the Internal Enslavement to Him is such that if i displease Him i get extremely depressed, even thinking He might be upset throws me in a funk and i can't stand it, i can't imagine ever leaving Him and don't want to. i couldn't leave Him. One time (i have depression) i tried to kill myself, everything else was out of control and i didn't think i was anything but a burden to my Master. i lied to everyone about the amount of pills i took, He called me and talked to me, and i tried to evade Him, but He made me tell Him the truth just by asking several times, what i'd done, how many and so on. This enabled Him to pretty much save my life. Even though i thought at the time i was doing everyone a favor, i could not lie to Him, even for His Own good, and although i was set against it. (don't feel like that anymore and yeah i realize it's stupid to kill of Master's prized property lol) But it showed me that i had no choice anymore with Him. i couldn't refuse Him on anything truely serious. Actually on anything He really puts His foot down on. i am unable to. slave giolla (with her $2.00) Thank you for sharing this giolla. i can completely identify with your sentiments and i know how hard it must be for you to share this personal upset with us all. Many thanks. slave tsina Next page